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 Right - join Part A to Part B etc, etc, etc (currently 1 views) |
| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: March 2nd, 2022, 15:07:37 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 752
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Okay, so I've got the throttle cable and speedo cable to fit to the car now, but with the clock's going forward later this month and hopefully some lighter (warmer!) evenings looming, I'm thinking about the cooling fan solution I need to improve the cooling system.
Having established that I need a second 7" fan on the radiator, I'm thinking something like this:
https://www.coolexperts.co.uk/product/universal-7-inch-car-radiator-fan/
(I'll try and dig out the receipt I'll have somewhere, and get exactly the same as the one I have)
But I've been thinking about the wiring of this (I've studied the wiring diagram linked to by Neil).
The concern I have is in trying to use the existing loom wiring, will the likely current draw for two fans be too much for the MPi Mini loom wiring?
I think I've mentioned before I don't mind if both fans operate at the same time (I think Neil, you mentioned that you had a second thermostat for the second fan and a separate switch).
So how should I try to wire this thing in - as mentioned many times before, I'm not a fan of electrics.
Cheers. |
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Reply: 570 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: March 5th, 2022, 13:44:11 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 752
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So the new throttle cable wasn't exactly the correct length, despite numerous measurements and drawings to explain what was required. This wasn't unexpected and is absolutely no reflection on Speedy Cables work - the cable is too long by design, rather than too short.
To that end I bought a cable kit, used one of the end fixings to create this:
Obviously I haven't cut/splayed the cable end, simply soldering the end piece in place. This could be a point of weakness - we'll see.
While doing this I fired up the car and allowed it to warm through again (the car hadn't been started for a few weeks). The last time I did start the car, the alternator wasn't charging - it was the same situation today. Another electrical issue to deal with :/ .
But first once the engine's cooled I'll trial the throttle cable and if it works, I'll drive the car onto the ramps and look to fit the speedo cable next.
I've fitted the heat wrap to the new speedo cable. This was also fitted to the old cable but despite this, the cable was routed such that it rested against the manifold and the cable outer was damaged.
The new speedo cable has a longer drive protrusion at the speedo head end which I hope will allow the speedo to work (fingers crossed).
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Reply: 571 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: March 9th, 2022, 12:55:36 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 752
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Gone through my list of receipts and found the exact fan so thought I'd record it here so I don't have to search through it again- bought it from Merlin Motorsport:
https://www.merlinmotorsport.c.....fan-65?pn=RAD-FAN-65
Price has gone up a bit - last one cost £48.
I'm also thinking if wiring a second fan in as a separate circuit, controlled by it's own switch might be the easier option. |
Last modified March 9th, 2022, 12:56:39 by Graham Bichard |
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Reply: 572 - 599 |
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| Roger Garland |
| Posted on: May 9th, 2022, 13:57:09 |
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Big Member
Location: Worcester, UK
Posts: 258
Reputation: 1 (tot: 1) |
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Hi Graham
I followed the Merlin link - that's quite a small fan, but if it's what you need, ok
Electric fans can be obtained through the owners club, but they are about 9" in diameter
The club fans are the correct size for the club radiator - and they are rather less expensive
I guess a club fan would be too large for the application you have in mind?
Roger
Club Secretary |
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Reply: 573 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: May 10th, 2022, 13:57:35 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 752
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Roger - yes, a 9" fan is too large for the Fiat Cinq radiator I'm using. By chance I already had a 9" fan that I've already offered up.
I've now got another fan of the same size/type to fit to the car, and have had it confirmed that the original MPI loom I'm using can handle the current draw if I wire the two fans in series.
So now all I have to do is get it fitted... |
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Reply: 574 - 599 |
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| Craig Smith |
| Posted on: May 11th, 2022, 08:55:26 |
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Big Member
Location: Bury
Posts: 257
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Hi Graham,
If you wire the fans in series, they will run at approx half speed.
I would use the MPI feed to drive a relay and wire the fans in parallel from another 12V feed (probably from the perm live on the solenoid given its proximity). |
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Reply: 575 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: June 25th, 2022, 17:26:52 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 752
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Craig, sorry for the late reply. Been busy with work (and a trip to France) recently, but I haven't forgotten about this.
Reading your post reminded me of school, using the peg boards, spring wire connectors and light bulbs - putting two in, they both light but a half brightness. I wonder if they still do that in schools today?
Anyway - I dug out my of Automotive Electrics (by one John Dickens) which on Pg70 has a cooling fan wiring diagram which is essentially what I need. So will look at the feed/earth as you describe and look at installing a hidden manual switch rather than a temperature operated switch. (By hidden I mean not protruding for the purpose of IVA compliance)
Just need to pull my finger out and get on with it.
ETA - how do you 'spec' a suitable relay? |
Last modified June 25th, 2022, 17:28:02 by Graham Bichard |
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Reply: 576 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: July 3rd, 2022, 09:29:39 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 752
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Not wired, just put in place:
ETA - The front of the car is the top of the photo. |
Last modified July 3rd, 2022, 09:30:51 by Graham Bichard |
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Reply: 577 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: July 3rd, 2022, 09:47:41 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 752
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I've copied this circuit from Mr Dickens book (Pg49), replacing the thermostat switch with a two position (on/off) switch that can be controlled manually from inside the car.
Any comments welcome.
How/where would be best to take connect to the ignition?
I'll dig out the spec of the fan, compare this information (expected current draw) with the standard MPi fuse rating. Also chose a suitable relay (I've now got a copy of the AES catalogue to help me find out what is available). |
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Reply: 578 - 599 |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: July 3rd, 2022, 16:04:22 |
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Big Member
Location: Southampton
Posts: 430
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Why not have a thermostatic switch in parallel to the manual switch at least then it'll work automatically but if you know its likely to get hot you can switch it manually.
Mike |
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Reply: 579 - 599 |
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| Simon Robinson |
| Posted on: July 4th, 2022, 08:03:28 |
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Big Member
Location: Northampton
Posts: 338
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| I have a similar setup to Mike's suggestion, an OFF-ON-ON switch on the dash where the first "ON" is thermostat and the second one is permanently on. |
D&H Mk IV 8313, KGV 215V (aka George) - 75,000 miles and counting since restoration in 2011. |
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Reply: 580 - 599 |
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| Craig Smith |
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Big Member
Location: Bury
Posts: 257
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| Wiring diagram that I knocked up a while back.. You may wish to put a small fuse (5A) on the feed to the relays from the switched or perm live. |
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Last modified July 5th, 2022, 15:06:27 by Craig Smith |
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Reply: 581 - 599 |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: July 5th, 2022, 19:01:15 |
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Big Member
Location: Southampton
Posts: 430
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Personally I put fans on stage 1 ignition so you can have the fans running without the engine but they turn off when you switch off the ignition and leave the car.
If your running twin fans another option is to run one on the temperature switch, therefore automatic and the other on the manual switch so if the auto fails or is not enough you have a back up.
Mike |
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Reply: 582 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: July 7th, 2022, 11:03:22 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 752
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Thanks for the replies.
Mike - The main reason for not incorporating a thermostatic switch was to try and keep the circuit simple such that I could attempt this myself. I'm not sure how the thermal switch would be placed in the cooling system. (I did contemplate not including the ignition to make it even simpler, but the possibility of me returning to a flat battery would be quite large I think!).
I should add - the existing fan is wired in as per the original MPi wiring loom i.e. comes on automatically when at the set temperature.
This second fan I'm looking to fit is in addition to this. Controlling it manually does mean I would need to be observant of the temperature gauge of course, as opposed to 'fit & forget'.
Craig - once I've sorted out my printer I'll print that diagram off and try and understand it and how I might be able to utilise it (I seem to work better staring at a bit of paper which I can scribble on!). At first glance it looks to include the manual override that Simon mentions he's used.
As an aside, I've had it confirmed that the new fan shouldn't pull more than 5 amps in operation and the original MPi fuse for the cooling fan is rated at 15A and works with this fan, so I'll look to use the same rating inline fuse with this second fan (and suitable relays).
(ETA Presumably the fuse rating is such to cover start up current draw?)
Thanks again All. |
Last modified July 7th, 2022, 13:00:33 by Graham Bichard |
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Reply: 583 - 599 |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: July 7th, 2022, 17:15:32 |
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Big Member
Location: Southampton
Posts: 430
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Ahh if it's an additional then yes manual switch makes sense.
Mike |
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Reply: 584 - 599 |
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Mini Marcos Forum > General Boards > Mini Marcos > Right - join Part A to Part B etc, etc, etc
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