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  Author    MM 7056 restoration, member from Downunder  (currently 7,606 views)
Steve_Schmidt
Posted on: September 19th, 2013, 02:10:27 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Gippsland, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 167
Quoted from James_Beeton, posted September 18th, 2013, 15:01:28 at here
Hi,
Looked at the photos and what a great job ....  question, do you have dimensions of ther roll cage and how on earth did you get it into the car?? I would like to fit one in my MK1V but dont know where to start....regards James



I'll do some rough measurements for you when I get it back from powder coating (... painted it the wrong shade of orange,  didn't I ) . When built, it was tack welded together in the car and can only be removed or replaced with the doors, windscreen, steering wheel, dashboard and everything else removed from  the car.
If you can buy a bar already made to fit - go for it. Doing one from scratch is so much harder. Down here in Aus we have no choice.
Although I'm not intending to use the Marcos seriously in motorsport, the roll bar is made from the correct cold-drawn, seamless tubular steel and conforms to our general requirements.


Steve (MM 7056) Downunder
http://www.mm7056.wordpress.com

Last modified September 19th, 2013, 02:27:53 by Steve_Schmidt
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Rodger Howard
Posted on: September 19th, 2013, 09:59:50 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Melbourne Australia
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A roll cage is like any other item. You get what you pay for. We must remember that the Marcos is a particularly unsupported fibreglass structure. Most of the cages I have seen will simply punch through the floor in a decent accident leaving the occupants "compressed". This does not take into consideration the fact that the Marcos will simply fold in the middle behind the remote; conveniently right below your backside if you do not have a roll cage that ties the front and rear subframes together.
If you do not intend to do properly I would suggest considering not installing a cage at all so there is not an implied false sense of security factor.
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jimnaylor
Posted on: September 19th, 2013, 21:40:01 Quote Report to Moderator
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Lots of threads on roll cages over the years, this one contains most of my thoughts:
http://www.minimarcos.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?b=MM,v=display,m=1313299766,s=0

But after being in an accident in a car with a roll cage, I agree very much with Rodger, if you are going to do it, do it right.
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Steve_Schmidt
Posted on: September 20th, 2013, 00:56:25 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Gippsland, Victoria, Australia
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I have to admire the tenacity and dedication of Rodger and Jim in trying to make what seems to be a fairly fragile egg-shell of of a monocoque into something from which the occupant can walk away from after a serious race incident.  
However, I tend to agree with the Roll Centre comment in Jim's earlier thread, where despite them designing and installing an extensive and very well engineered cage, "... they told me I was completely mad to be in it !"
The decisions we make about the cars we choose to race, especially in historic categories, are usually not based on their inherent safety - I have a Bugeye/Frogeye Sprite that I used to race, which has a single door skin for side protection and a spear-like steering column running from beside the radiator at the very front of the car, to almost the middle of your chest. I also raced a light-weight Cooper S powered Mini Moke which had about as much protection as a skate board, and now race a 1964 Cooper S which despite having a full alloy cage, is probably no safer than today's standard road car.
We all make compromises to enjoy driving and racing the cars we own and admire; but if safety was your ultimate priority, would you be racing a Mini Marcos GT, or for that matter even driving one on the road?




Steve (MM 7056) Downunder
http://www.mm7056.wordpress.com

Last modified September 20th, 2013, 07:16:26 by Steve_Schmidt
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Rodger Howard
Posted on: September 20th, 2013, 11:10:19 Quote Report to Moderator
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Didn't think I would sway opinion on the issue of cages. I'll stick to my goal of building the best mini marcos I can. Needless to say I have a steering column with a universal joint as well as a full cage. In 2006 I toured the Uk and France with a friend who broke his sternum when the steering wheel in his mini ute made contact with his chest the week before we left. Some would say he did it on purpose so I had to carry his bags
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Steve_Schmidt
Posted on: October 28th, 2013, 02:16:08 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Gippsland, Victoria, Australia
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Not a lot of progress on the Marcos restoration this month due to climatic and horticultural interference  
For details and a few interesting pictures clink on this link to my website.
http://mm7056.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/october-2013/

Steve (MM 7056) Downunder
http://www.mm7056.wordpress.com
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Steve_Schmidt
Posted on: November 2nd, 2013, 05:13:22 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Gippsland, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 167
Thought I'd share my Marcos frustrations of today  
I'm working on the door frames of the bodyshell, removing as much of the old paint as I can; but it's slow going with all the little corners and steps to sand back. The passenger side had a large hollow area about 6" long in the upper section below the edge of the roof where the fibreglass was exposed, as well as several cracks in the gelcoat along the bottom sill section. The driver's side door, had once been hit by another car so I wasn't surprised to find cracked and missing gelcoat around the frame area as well as a few cracks right through the fibreglass near the lower hinge and door latch areas. I was, however, surprised to find how thin and flexible the fibreglass was where the latch hardware mounts and the adjacent flange. Because the flange was cracked right through here, I've substantially reinforced that whole area with a double layer of 600g matting to effectively almost double its thickness.
Lots of filling and sand sanding to go before I'll be satisfied with this area and move on the rear quarters.

Lower hinge area of driver's door frame


Cracked latch mounting area and very thin flange


Reinforced flange and area behind latch mounting area

Steve (MM 7056) Downunder
http://www.mm7056.wordpress.com
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Steve_Schmidt
Posted on: December 13th, 2013, 09:10:31 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Gippsland, Victoria, Australia
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Most people seem to be fitting larger and larger diameter wheels onto their Marcos. I've gone the other way and tried some smaller wheels together with very stiff suspension that is adjustable for height.
Not too sure if it will catch on  




Steve (MM 7056) Downunder
http://www.mm7056.wordpress.com
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Simon Robinson
Posted on: December 13th, 2013, 09:46:59 Quote Report to Moderator
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The ride might be stiff (steering's also going to be a problem) but at least you won't get grounded on any speed bumps!

It's also the first MM I've seen that you need a ladder to get into...

D&H Mk IV 8313, KGV 215V (aka George) - 75,000 miles and counting since restoration in 2011.
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Neil KilBane
Posted on: December 13th, 2013, 12:20:57 Quote Report to Moderator
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just a little fine tuning left to do.


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Not a fan, looks like a tractor, bigger wheel at the back an all that.

 
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admin
Posted on: December 13th, 2013, 15:41:36 Quote Report to Moderator
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Don't tell me - it handles like a supermarket trolley?
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Brian
Posted on: December 13th, 2013, 21:34:45 Quote Report to Moderator
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I think that the big upside to this suspension style is that you'll actually be at about eye-level with the other cars on the road?

Also, I'm liking the desert-camouflage paint job!

Last modified December 13th, 2013, 21:35:32 by Brian
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admin
Posted on: December 14th, 2013, 10:48:31
Attachment: trolley.jpeg - 88.66 KB (1757 views)
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This is the short wheelbase version. In traditional Marcos fashion, it has a wooden chassis.


Last modified December 14th, 2013, 21:23:13 by admin
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Steve_Schmidt
Posted on: January 12th, 2014, 07:31:34 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Gippsland, Victoria, Australia
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The build is slowly progressing and at a stage now where I'm happy to leave the shell to age in its new coat of grey primer whilst I tackle the doors which are in serious need of repair. At some stage the driver's door has been damaged and some fairly agricultural repairs made. The passenger door has metal embedded in the fibreglass where the hinges mount - is this normal, because there aren't any metal plates in the driver's door - which could be because of the repair ? The aluminium window frames are severely corroded, but salvageable. The oval-shaped pocket into which the door handle sits is broken on both doors, allowing the handle to slip too far inwards - that's going to be a fiddly repair and I'd be grateful if somebody could post a picture of what the inside of the handle pocket is meant to look like  
I would love to have seen how the moulds of these cars were constructed and how the cars were put together. The more I worked on the body shell the more, shall we say 'creative' aspects I came across. I've mentioned previously about the different sized and shaped internal sill panels and of course the skewed rear panel, but now I find that the vertical front panel (where the numberplate usually fits) has a different angled taper at either end, has anybody else noticed this?  

Here's some shots following today's session.









Steve (MM 7056) Downunder
http://www.mm7056.wordpress.com

Last modified January 12th, 2014, 10:02:37 by Steve_Schmidt
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admin
Posted on: January 12th, 2014, 15:30:59
Attachment: factory.jpeg - 84.93 KB (1686 views)
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This is how they were made. I haven't got a Mk.III so I can't show you the handle recesses but they were just sufficient to accommodate the Mini escutcheon with the shaft horizontal.

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