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 Tank for Mini Marcos (currently 9,317 views) |
| Klaus_Witzig |
| Posted on: August 14th, 2011, 05:29:26 |
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Baby Member
Posts: 6
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For the restoration of my Marcos it would be interesting to know which donor car the petrol tank is from. I also would like to fit a rollcage; where should I have a look for a good one?
Thanks a lot for your help
Klaus Witzig |
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| Niels |
| Posted on: August 14th, 2011, 10:23:03 |
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Baby Member
Posts: 40
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Hello Klaus,
normally the tank for a mini marcos would be a mini van tank, that is available from any mini parts shop. A rollcage could be fittet for around 1000 Euro at marcos heritage or in germany from Wichers at around the same price, depending on where you are based (name sounds german?) .
Greetings from Hamburg, Germany
Niels |
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Reply: 1 - 35 |
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| Klaus_Witzig |
| Posted on: August 14th, 2011, 14:49:37 |
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Baby Member
Posts: 6
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Hi Niels,
thanks a lot for the info.
Yes I am German, from the very south of Germany.
Compared to the distance to Hamburg I am rather north of Italy.(400 Km to Milan)
Could you give me more details of that company please.
Regards
Klaus Witzig |
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Reply: 2 - 35 |
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| Niels |
| Posted on: August 14th, 2011, 16:52:02 |
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Baby Member
Posts: 40
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Hi Klaus again, wichers sport are based in nienburg near bremen, and i just had a look at their internet shop, marcos are not mentioned, but i know they made some cages for mini and minimarcos, just try to contact them (see webside).
They are selling full fia cages, i dont know if you are going for a full cage?
Another company from the south would be isa-racing, the could possibly help, but are a bit on the expensive side...
Greetings from Hamburg
Niels |
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Reply: 3 - 35 |
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| laurent laval |
| Posted on: August 25th, 2011, 10:25:53 |
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Baby Member
Posts: 13
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It is a little bit far from Germany, at like from your area Klaus, but in belgium, there is also M Frame that makes rollcage. Look at the pictures on the website... it is a marcos. I don t have any idea of the price: http://www.mframe.be/
Otherwise there is as well rollcenter in UK but farer... |
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Reply: 4 - 35 |
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| jimnaylor |
| Posted on: August 25th, 2011, 13:22:08 |
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Big Member
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 222
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It's great to see such good pictures of a cage for a mini marcos, particularly on a manufacturers web site, do we know whose it is?
The following may sound pedantic but I've literally just got my car back from the roll centre, many £'s lighter, after having to have my cage modified because of 'clarified' MSA regs. I also had them slightly improve the main hoop mounting because of the issues highlighted below. I've walked out of a bad crash before because of good cage so it's a subject dear to my heart.
Initially the MFrame cage looked fantastic but looking closer there are problems with it which anyone getting a cage for a MM should be aware of. Firstly it might comply with Belgian regs, I wouldn't know, but it doesn't comply with UK or FIA regs as it has a hinged joint between the main hoop and the lateral (side) bars. This is specifically banned in both UK and FIA regs, the hinged joints elsewhere are OK though.
More generally it highlights the problem that few if any roll cage manufacturers know much about monocoque fibreglass cars and MM's in particular. The main mounting feet for both the main and front roll bar land in relatively weak areas of the MM tub. This is the normal location for most cars, and complies with the regs but in a MM they will probably just punch through in a roll. The MFrame cage has a large vertical plate on the foot of the main hoop but it wouldn't appear to do a lot. The only place of any real strength near the main hoop in a MM is the upstand that holds the rear subframe, but if you land directly on that the hoop is a bit too far back and a bit short . You need every bit of height you can get as the main bar should be at least 50mm above the drivers helmet which is very difficult to get! Even so this is the most common mounting location. There is no easy solution, in mine the main hoop lands on a cross tube infront of the upstand, plated back to top and front of the upstand and also attached to all the subframe/beam axle mounts. That spreads the load over a big substantial area and uses 16 bolts into the body rather than the 6 specified in the regs. But it does add a lot of weight.
The front is even more difficult as the floor where the front foot ends up has no inherent strength neither has anything near it, the sill beam being the strongest. Mine lands on a very big plate that also goes up and spreads the load into the sill. Even so it's not particularly strong so the cage is triangulated onto the front top subframe mounts in the hope that most of the load is transferred there.
Most other fibreglass cars have a chassis and the roll cage is mounted onto that rather than the body but fibreglass monocoque's like the MM are very rare and different to the normal cars that roll cages are made for, so don't automatically assume the manufacturer knows what they are doing. You almost certainly know far more about the strong and weak points of the car than they do. It's your life! |
Last modified August 25th, 2011, 13:23:06 by jimnaylor |
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Reply: 5 - 35 |
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| laurent laval |
| Posted on: August 25th, 2011, 14:43:18 |
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Baby Member
Posts: 13
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Interesting because I was wondering about an efficient way to fit a rollcage in a marcos...
To get it clearer, is it possible to have some pictures of your roll cage and the mounting plates? |
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Reply: 6 - 35 |
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| jimnaylor |
| Posted on: August 25th, 2011, 15:00:12 |
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Big Member
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 222
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The cage is back out of the car awaiting painting at the moment, but I can take some photo's of it in that state. It might even be clearer!
I'm not saying mine is the best way of doing it BTW, but I am now happy enough with it. |
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Reply: 7 - 35 |
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| laurent laval |
| Posted on: August 26th, 2011, 06:33:43 |
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Baby Member
Posts: 13
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| Even it is not with the final painting, it could be interesting to see it... If you have time to take some pictures, it will be great. |
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Reply: 8 - 35 |
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| jimnaylor |
Posted on: August 26th, 2011, 13:30:32
 Attachment: image1.jpg - 53.85 KB (5820 views) |
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Big Member
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 222
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Sorry can't work out how to attach more than 1 picture to a message so it's going to have to be lot's
To start this is the cross beam |
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Reply: 9 - 35 |
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| jimnaylor |
Posted on: August 26th, 2011, 13:32:31
Attachment: imgp0632.jpg - 86.27 KB (5830 views) |
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Big Member
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 222
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| Attached to the rear cage - the attachment has just been changed to a more conventional foot, it was a plate in shear before which I was not totally happy with. |
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Reply: 10 - 35 |
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| jimnaylor |
Posted on: August 26th, 2011, 13:34:47
Attachment: imgp0629.jpg - 67.62 KB (4812 views) |
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Big Member
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 222
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| Detail of the top of the attachment the two bolts go into the reinforced section of the shell infront of the wheel arch and above the sub frame. |
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Reply: 11 - 35 |
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| jimnaylor |
Posted on: August 26th, 2011, 13:37:37
Attachment: imgp0628.jpg - 77.25 KB (5832 views) |
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Big Member
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 222
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| The front of the attachment. The bolt hole on the right is to the top subframe bolt. The two in the middle into the reinforced upstand. The three on the left pick up on anchorages on my rear beam axle. |
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Reply: 12 - 35 |
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| jimnaylor |
Posted on: August 26th, 2011, 13:39:28
Attachment: imgp0633.jpg - 88.12 KB (5817 views) |
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Big Member
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 222
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| The main hoop attachment. |
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Reply: 13 - 35 |
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| jimnaylor |
Posted on: August 26th, 2011, 13:42:37
Attachment: imgp0634.jpg - 75.66 KB (4813 views) |
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Big Member
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 222
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| My old front leg. The MSA don't like the lower bend so I've had to change it, but I always thought that if it did bend there in a roll it would transfer the load into the sill which is stronger than the floor.... still I had 19 years of use out of it. |
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