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 A few questions (currently 5,376 views) |
| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 23rd, 2014, 14:13:30 |
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Hi guys I have a couple of questions and was wondering if any of you would be able to help
Firstly
I know that a number of people have moulds for the mini marcos' and maybe even other kit cars so I was wondering what moulds are available for use if needed?
Secondly
Has anyone done an engine conversion on a mini marcos? For example honda vtec, vauxhall red tops, Yamaha r1, or any others?
Finally are there any damaged shells around that might be available?
Regards
Alex |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: May 23rd, 2014, 16:04:35 |
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I have moulds for:
Doors
Bonnet
Front panel
Tail gate
Rear body from doors back (no floorpan)
My brother has a removable front end mould
I started to fit a Suzuki swift gti engine/gearbox to a mk5 she'll but my brother now has it and it never made it to the road...... yet.
Crashed ones do come up but not often. I have one that I bought from Scotland.
Mike |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 23rd, 2014, 18:32:51 |
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Which mk marcos are they of?
Is that your profile picture?
Alex |
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| admin |
| Posted on: May 23rd, 2014, 19:36:05 |
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AJEC Racing tried to do a Zcars rear engine conversion with a Honda R engine. See
http://www.minimarcos.org/memcars/honda/
It wasn't very successful and is being converted back to standard in USA.
Mike Shilvock built a racer with a 2-litre Vauxhall engine in the back. There wasn't much left of the original car! |
Last modified May 23rd, 2014, 19:37:21 by admin |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: May 23rd, 2014, 21:18:26 |
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Bonnet fits all
Front panel fits most (not the few cars that have one piece bonnets ie some mk4/5)
Doors fit mk3 on but I suspect they may fit earlier they may need a fettle depending on door catch used.
Rear hatch late mk3 on
Front end will fit all but was taken from a mk3 racer
Rear body mk1 to mk3 but could be made to fit others.
Plus I have some random odd bits
Yes that is mine in my profile and the mk5 swift powered was also a crashed car plus I've rebuilt 4 other crashed cars for club members.
Mike |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 24th, 2014, 11:49:12 |
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| Do you have any pictures of the moulds and the pieces which it makes? |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: May 24th, 2014, 16:16:47 |
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A shame there haven't been more attempts at re-engine'ing the MM. I really do think if there was a more modern alternative engineered for this kit, more new builds might be undertaken.
When (if!) my car is every on the road, I've got a couple of spare subframes I'd like to play around with.
The availability of Nissan Micra units could be a good starting point I think.
Good look in finding a project Alex, and in sorting an alternative power unit.
Mike - I don't suppose you're going to start a production run of carbon fibre panels are you?  |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 24th, 2014, 16:27:36 |
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I wanted to try and do a 400bhp honda vtec awd Iv been looking into subframes and kits. I was going to look Into trying to make a road legal track marcos with carbon fibre panels which is sorta why I wanted to know who had moulds and so on.
Regards
Alex |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: May 24th, 2014, 20:34:19 |
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Alex,
There is a kit, as I'm sure you know, from America that uses the 4wd set up from the CRV which fits into a mini. Not sure the bonnet height will allow such an easy conversion, and a space frame set up would probably be better, but you did say you were looking for a track car!
And I'm sure there are pictures of a carbon fibre MM from Japan on the forum somewhere.
But keep us all updated on your plans. |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 24th, 2014, 21:02:11 |
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Yeah it's by minitec I have looked into it but I work in a car body shop on the weekends and have learnt bits and pieces of fabrication so I may give it a go at making one but we will have to wait and see but I'm going to see if I can get hold of some moulds some how and try and do the carbon fibre work Aswell
Alex |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 25th, 2014, 18:38:10 |
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Well today I have been looking into carbon fibering. I have been looking at what is needed to do it and what steps to do it in and so on so I now need to find the moulds to have an attempt at doing it. The one thing which I couldn't find out was sticking the panels together once they are made can anyone spread some light on this?
Also does anyone have any moulds in the West Midlands?
Alex |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: May 25th, 2014, 21:59:07 |
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If you have never used carbon fibre before find a college that does a course as your life could depend on your laminating skills. Having used grp/frp for 20 odd years I can safely say there is a varst difference in strength between a good lay up and a bad that you can't easily see unless you know what your looking for.
Mike |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 25th, 2014, 22:18:42 |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: May 26th, 2014, 07:02:13 |
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Don't get me wrong those videos are very good but that guy has clearly been doing it a while. You'll also find the mould that people have may not be suitable for vac bagging (I know mine aren't without work). He also has quite a few pounds worth of equipment at his disposal. The dust from carbon is conductive so kills electric tools it's also not very good for you. I really do recommend doing a coarse atleast you will then know what your getting yourself into.
Mike |
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| Rodger Howard |
| Posted on: May 26th, 2014, 08:07:50 |
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I understand the principle " because i can" as much as any other person given the lengths i have gone with my car...
However, what is the point of a 400 hp carbon panelled marcos?
Do you honestly expect it to handle?
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 26th, 2014, 08:39:48 |
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I will have a look inti college courses and see what there is around, if there isn't anything then I guess I will have to forget the idea or get someone to make it for me.
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Quoted from Rodger Howard, posted May 26th, 2014, 08:07:50 at here |
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I understand the principle " because i can" as much as any other person given the lengths i have gone with my car...
However, what is the point of a 400 hp carbon panelled marcos?
Do you honestly expect it to handle?
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As said previously it's for track use, how do you mean by do you expect it to handle?
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 26th, 2014, 11:25:59 |
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I have been looking this morning as you may know about the course but there is no college in my area that actually offer the course and if I have found one they will only do it if a group of 10 go so I may have to keep looking into how to make an effective/ good working carbon fibre or could I do top layer carbon fibre then fibreglass layers under neath?
Alex |
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| Stuart |
| Posted on: May 26th, 2014, 11:32:37 |
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| With 400 hp the extra of weight of GRP against Carbon isn't going to be so noticeable is it ? |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: May 26th, 2014, 11:38:01 |
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They took a 120hp "standard" mk1 mini Marcos to le mans raced it for 24hrs against gt40's it finished which is more than most! I have owned a metro turbo powered jem (90hp) and driven my brothers racer (120hp) both wheel spin for a pastime and can clear 100mph. Believe me when I say drive a "normal" one learn to drive it (you will need to relearn driving) then start modifying it to make it better for your use if that means 400hp etc so be it. Most people on here have had mini Marcos for years love them for what they are (a 1960's sports car that is quick but NOT fast) so modifications are to improve not redesign. These cars are addictive and a whole load of fun around speed limits ish good luck with your search we all here to help the best we can.
Mike |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 26th, 2014, 12:08:39 |
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Does anyone else have any moulds apart from yourself mike?
I know that a lot of people aren't keen on the conversion i am thinking of, but it's just an idea I used to do a bit of track racing when I was younger but gave up for my career as a chef bad mistake I can tell you now. But as said it's just an idea I'm toying with at the moment id like to do the vtec conversion but I know it's going to be hard to get it to fit into the engine bay with out modifications to the shell itself. Because of where I work I have got talking to a gentleman who is a Dr in engineering and has offered to help with the build.
But as said if possible I would like to get hold of some moulds and go from there, if needs be I'll scrap the carbon fibre idea and just do fibreglassing as I know a lot more about that then carbon fibreing as there is extra steps involved as said like vaccum bagging the panels while resin is going into the fibres to make it bond together.
Alex |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: May 26th, 2014, 13:33:00 |
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Please don't take me as saying don't do it I just want you to understand exactly what your trying to do. Don't forget a mini Marcos is monocoque ie no chassis.
Mike |
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| Joost van Dien |
| Posted on: May 26th, 2014, 13:46:20 |
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There is a full "carbon" mini marcos Clicky>http://www.minimarcos.org.uk/memcars/8026/index.html
The guy took a mould from his original car and got through the proces of making one. It took ages if you look at the data on his website. As already mentioned you maybe end up with a very light car without any traction. Good luck.
About the carbon itself. A friend of mine made a few 2mm carbon panels for me at his work (they make carbon masts for the volvo ocean race). After they came out of the oven they were bent, he forgot to lay the layers the correct way. You won't see this on a 10mm panel, but the tension is in the material! As Mike says, you need experience. |
Last modified May 26th, 2014, 13:56:39 by Joost van Dien |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: May 26th, 2014, 19:23:09 |
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Alex, have you thought of a fwd bike engine conversion?
I'm sure there are Yamaha R1 conversions for he mini. It shouldn't be too hard to utilise a 'Busa engine instead. This wouldn't give you the 4wd you mentioned, but should certainly give you the power you're after, especially if turbocharged.
The idea of the CRV 4wd Marcos does sound good though  .
I'd tend to agree with Stuart though, and suggest sticking with the GRP shell (with carbon bonnet, tailgate, doors if you like) but for a dedicated track car I'd want a substantial cage (plenty of pictures on the forum of peoples solutions).
But with 16v A-Series conversions, Suzuki Swift conversions, how about a K-Series Rover, or a super/turbo A-Series - there must be something to take your fancy! |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 27th, 2014, 00:48:47 |
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I have thought about a bike conversion but looking into it it's more expensive as it's a complete kit and you can't fabricate one yourself and a reverse gear is a problem.
I looked into buying a hayabusa engine with an ecu, to buy it's roughly £1000 - £2000, the vtec option is a cheaper route to go down by the look of things as you can get a vtec engine at around 190bhp for £750 I do like the idea of 4wd system but I would need to modify the floor panel to do so.
I'm thinking of forgetting the idea of a carbon fibre marcos and go for carbon fibre bonnet, doors and tailgate but I'd prefer one that has a fixed rear window instead though.
Cage wise I'd look at one made by caged and go for an fia approved one with door bars, roof cross section and harness bar and if possible through the bulkhead and connect to the subframe to try and make the shell a bit more rigid, bucket seat ideally recaro pole positions if possible with either 6 or 8 point harness' and Hans.
I have had a look into other engine conversions bike engines as stated, vtec and redtop turbos (vauxhall cavalier gsi turbo engine). My daily drive at the moment is a 1.4 mg zr but the k series have a lot of problems with them as I am currently witnessing.
Alex |
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| Stuart |
| Posted on: May 27th, 2014, 07:35:00 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 27th, 2014, 11:25:14 |
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| I like the look of that, I'd prefer to do a front mounted conversions then the rear to be honest |
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| Brian |
| Posted on: May 27th, 2014, 16:09:30 |
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Re: carbon fiber hood/doors/etc, the doors are very light as is -- fiberglass version is, I'm guessing, less than 2.5kg for the doors, and less than 1kg for bonnet. So, there isn't a ton of room for weight savings there.
I did save a lot of weight by using a 1.5 kg LiFePo battery. And aluminum radius arms and brakes all around. Granted, I may need to add most of that weight savings back to the car as ballast -- as it is, I can pick the rear end off the ground with one hand. |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 27th, 2014, 20:29:17 |
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| How much does a bare shell weigh? |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: May 27th, 2014, 20:52:09 |
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Not sure what a bare shell weighs but my last road trim Marcos was 610kg all up.
Mike |
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| John Dickens |
| Posted on: May 27th, 2014, 21:10:24 |
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If you just want the cosmetic appearance of carbon fibre you can use one layer of it behind clear gel coat then laminate the rest in GRP but you need a lot of experience in epoxy/carbon techniques before you attempt to laminate a one piece structural body chassis unit.
Much of the strength of the MM structure comes from it's one piece construction and its a tricky shape to vac bag. Hand lay up would not give the same strength. You can bond a few pieces together but the bond line between the glue and the panel will always be the weak point.
Epoxy resins also need overcoating as they deteriorate on exposure to UV light. |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 27th, 2014, 23:37:25 |
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It was more for the look than anything, but as you all have said the structure and the strength of the panels is the problem. The carbon fibre was more for look than weight saving then anything as I thought it would look good but as said I probably don't have the skills to do this I mean I know one could be carbon wrapped but if done incorrectly it could look bad and could let water in.
What my overall idea originally wanted to go for was the carbon fibre look, with the gt front end side skirts and arches with the rear spoiler, force racing split rims chrome and red or black, vtec engine, recaro bucket seats, 6/8 point harness, fia roll cage, sound deadening, underlay black carpet, carbon fibre door cards, double din sat nav radio, front component speakers, a tablet computer for gauges, steering wheel with buttons for indicators and horn.
Hopefully that has painted a picture |
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| Neil KilBane |
| Posted on: May 28th, 2014, 06:55:30 |
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just a little fine tuning left to do.
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Don't think there would be much need for a sat nav radio in a 400hp Mini Marcos.  |
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| Brian |
| Posted on: May 28th, 2014, 16:47:10 |
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Random suggestion: if you are looking for the CF look on panels like the hood, etc, it might be worth asking on here if some folks can help out with those pieces, as opposed to just skipping them entirely due to not having experience with grp/frp. There's only one way to get experience  .
However, you have a long project ahead of you before getting there -- so you need to find a car and get it running before getring there . |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 28th, 2014, 16:55:02 |
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Yeah that may be a good idea I hadn't thought of that is anyone capable of doing carbon fibre/Kevlar bonnet and doors?
I understand that I'm waiting for something to come up that I like the look of I am wanting a mk1/mk2 (the shells which have no tailgate?)
Does anyone have a mould of the gt front? Side skirts and wheel arches?
Alex |
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| Brian |
| Posted on: May 28th, 2014, 18:08:22 |
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If you really don't want a tailgate, also consider just bonding the rear gate to the body. You can do that and make it look stock. That seems that it would go like a fiberglass repair.
I will say that access to the back area, once you get a cage in there, will be extremely difficult, especially once you put in fia certified seats which will be fixed backed. You’ll have to remove a seat, and crawl through a small hole, or remove the rear window, if you ever wanted to maintain the wiring or fuel filler plumbing, or access the bolts to the rear sub frame to drop it.
An open able rear hatch seems very handy . |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: May 28th, 2014, 19:03:15 |
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Most mk3's have no rear hatch only the very late ones do and it was only an option. My brother's racer is a mk3 with no hatch we fitted a perspex rear screen on panel locks so you could access the rear.
Mike |
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| jimnaylor |
| Posted on: May 28th, 2014, 19:17:38 |
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| I've got to agree with the last two comments. It's impossible to get into the back of a mini marcos with a cage with fixed diagonal. My Mk3 has no rear hatch so I've had to use a hinged perspex rear screen with over centre catches so I can access the rear. Getting it watertight has btw proved impossible, but that has not been a real issue in events. If you have a hatch, keep it! or you will almost certainly regret it later. |
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| Martin_Loram |
| Posted on: May 28th, 2014, 20:56:00 |
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| Driving to Le man with a load of camping gear in the back was a breeze with the rear hatch and I have a cage too and wouldn't dream of getting rid of it !!! |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 29th, 2014, 01:38:11 |
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It's back to the thinking board again I think. After looking at power to weight ratio calculators if a mini marcos weights around 610kg road going with a 275bhp engine it has the same power to weight as a pagani zonda at 451 and it's is 11bhp off an Ariel atom (462bhp) and 74bhp off a Bugatti veyron so maybe less bhp on this one is better  so I think I will aim for around the 610kg weight and 275bhp
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| Brian |
| Posted on: May 29th, 2014, 01:49:59 |
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| I need to get mine onto a scale, but in race prep, I suspect that you can cut a bit from that 610kg. Especially since, iirc, the Honda power plant is lighter than the a-series. |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: May 29th, 2014, 05:32:36 |
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Any weight saving for race trim is put back in with the cage.
How on earth are you going to get 275hp on the road with front wheel drive and max of 175 width tyres.
Mike |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 29th, 2014, 08:51:35 |
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I was going to look into 4 wheel drive
Alex |
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| jimnaylor |
| Posted on: May 29th, 2014, 12:31:05 |
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Location: Bedfordshire
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| Re weight, my car is 620Kg and that includes all the rally gear; spare wheel, jack, plumbed in and hand held fire extinguishers, passenger seat, engine, tank and under floor guards, passenger foot rest etc etc, so under 600kg should by easily possible if strip it back to the bare minimum. Going to 4WD would add quite a bit though. |
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| Tom Springer |
| Posted on: May 29th, 2014, 14:09:53 |
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Another random thought...
Seek and drive as many converted Minis as you can. At least get a feel for what the added power will do the the car's balance. Here in the US it sems that many (most?) of the cars converted to alternate power such as VTECH, are for sale soon after completion. The engine swap spoils the car. As mentioned early on, a club member in California bought a bike engined car and found it very dificult to drive. He is converting it back to standard spec. There is s thread on the car on the forum somewhere. |
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| Brian |
| Posted on: May 29th, 2014, 16:35:23 |
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Sometimes there's just plain fun in making something. Many people will build their ideal project, then when.done, move onto the next thing.
Also, keep in mind, the condition of car that you were looking for, you'll be spending considerable time on the body work first. Many people here seem to spend years on that step, though I imagine that could be a bit faster if you don't have fulltime work and a family.
Why not find a car, and start getting the bodywork into good shape, and while that's working out, then think about the powertrain as the bodywork gets closer to complete.
And, in the meantime, try to see if you can find someone with an awd mini that you can drive.
Also, in a previous post, you were comparing the costs of items; I'm not sure what your budget is, but here in the states, the general sense is that a plain (non awd) vtec conversion will run about £20,000 (not counting the donor), and be worth about £15,000 or less when complete. Get onto some of the mini conversion pages there, and find how much that will cost (time and money). Make a spreadsheet with all the costs you expect to come across, and then double that. |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 29th, 2014, 23:30:05 |
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Well I am keeping an eye out for a marcos shell at this moment in time. What I plan on doing is getting a shell repairing it if it needs to be. I will not paint incase I need to modify the engine bay of the shell itself. But while working on the shell I will be buying parts that are needed for the project and box them up for when I need them. I am currently looking at conversion sites such as 16v mini forum to see if there is anything that interests we.
I didn't think of the spreadsheet but I will do one when the project starts |
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| Brian |
| Posted on: May 30th, 2014, 00:53:51 |
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As for a project spreadsheet -- I created one with multiple tabs. I created a list of all the parts needed for each section of the car. I forget now, but I think sections included:
* Engine
* Suspension/steering
* Cooling
* Brakes
* Electrical
* Instrumentation
* Interior
and some others. Then, I went through the parts diagrams for each section of the car, one line for each part. Then, I had columns with some possible sources for the parts. Ex: minispares, a local shop, new, used, whatever, and what it would cost from that source.
I ended up finding out that some of the bundled kits from shops, for example minispares, were actually more expensive than the sum of all their parts purchased from the same source.
Anyways, I used that list to filter down what I needed, and where I'd get it from, and used that for budgeting. Even though I ended up doing my own brake plumbing (with mostly -AN style flaring), the mini parts diagrams were able to remind me of some of the fittings and parts I'd need, and attachment points to the car. |
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| Neil KilBane |
| Posted on: May 30th, 2014, 06:59:08 |
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just a little fine tuning left to do.
Location: Newtown Forbes, Ireland
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| Have you a time frame for this Alex ? |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: May 30th, 2014, 07:32:02 |
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Brian is there any chance you could send me a copy so I roughly know what I'm doing with for the spread sheet.
No there's no time scale for the project
Alex |
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| Tim_Greenhill |
| Posted on: May 30th, 2014, 09:29:08 |
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Quoted from Alex_Rowbottom, posted May 30th, 2014, 07:32:02 at here |
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Brian is there any chance you could send me a copy so I roughly know what I'm doing with for the spread sheet.
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Would find that very useful too if you are happy to share. |
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| Brian |
| Posted on: May 30th, 2014, 16:28:10 |
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| I'll dig it through early next week. Haven't used it in a while . |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: June 1st, 2014, 15:25:19 |
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That's great thank you.
Okay guys I'm looking for a marcos project is there any available? |
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| Neil KilBane |
| Posted on: June 2nd, 2014, 21:42:58 |
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just a little fine tuning left to do.
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: June 3rd, 2014, 21:58:10 |
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| Bit too much for me at the moment "/ |
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| Neil KilBane |
| Posted on: June 3rd, 2014, 22:17:20 |
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just a little fine tuning left to do.
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| They're only going to get dearer |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: June 3rd, 2014, 22:19:25 |
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| I know they will but i need more of a project because of what I want to do "/ |
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| Brian |
| Posted on: June 3rd, 2014, 22:47:32 |
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| The 2k is just a drop in the bucket compared to what the rest of your project will cost . |
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| Neil KilBane |
| Posted on: June 4th, 2014, 07:31:34 |
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just a little fine tuning left to do.
Location: Newtown Forbes, Ireland
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| A cheaper shell would probably cost more in the long run to get it to that stage, to be honest. |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: June 8th, 2014, 15:24:22 |
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Right I'm starting to plan things now of how I want it to look, engine, running gear, breaks and so on I am looking into a shell at the moment but I need advice and help. I don't want to rush into anything so I am taking things slow and making careful decisions.
I would like to go with the look of something like this body wise http://www.minimarcos.org.uk/memcars/8241/index.html if anyone has an more pics that would be great as I can't seem to find one with the front end on the car.
Engine wise I'm looking at a suzuki hayabusa, I have been speaking to an engineer who has designed suspension for jaguar and billstein amongst other things who is willing to come on board with the project and I have also spoken to an auto electrician about wiring and so on so hopefully the project will be full steam ahead when I get a shell.
Oh I also have a question, if a shell doesn't have a vin number, logbook, registration plates, or any history is there anyway of getting it on the road without an Iva, I know you may be able to get a logbook but how would you come to get one?
Alex |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: June 8th, 2014, 16:34:40 |
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Simple answer to the IVA question is no not legally unless you can prove the car was on the road and correctly registered as a mini marcos. Many cars didn't get registered properly in the first place it difficult even to get this rectified. I'm currently building an ibex to go through IVA and I think you could get a mini marcos through with a little work.
Mike |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: June 15th, 2014, 07:58:18 |
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Quoted from mike brown, posted June 8th, 2014, 16:34:40 at here |
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I'm currently building an ibex to go through IVA and I think you could get a mini marcos through with a little work.
Mike
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I hope so!
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| Phil Smethurst |
Posted on: June 20th, 2014, 02:39:52
 Attachment: mm_1.jpg - 151.02 KB (906 views) |
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Hi Alex,
a couple of pics of the car. I would definitely look for a shell with a rear hatch as others have pointed out it makes it so much easier to do anything around the rear inside. The bodywork on mine is anything but perfect but still took ages as I was young and learning to mould (still lots of room for improvement!) during the (long) rebuild. Trying to get the car into any shape to paint (also done at home) was the hardest part of things. Tackling a big bodywork job just wears you down and I thought about giving up with mine but nobody would of bought it as an empty half done shell. Good luck with the project if it gets going. |
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| Phil Smethurst |
Posted on: June 20th, 2014, 02:42:06
Attachment: mm_2.jpg - 114.46 KB (904 views) |
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| pic 2 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: June 20th, 2014, 13:31:19 |
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| Phil Smethurst |
| Posted on: June 21st, 2014, 04:30:47 |
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| Sorry Alex - no such thing as a MM body kit!. I moulded the arches and skirt and front end though the front end needs a new mould making and a better front pressed out of it at some point in the future. |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: June 21st, 2014, 13:07:55 |
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| Do you still have the original moulds? |
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| Phil Smethurst |
Posted on: June 22nd, 2014, 00:17:04
Attachment: mm_moulding.jpg - 137.30 KB (907 views) |
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Alex,
I do still have side skirt and an arch mould but the front end mould was damaged. I am no longer in the UK though! and am based in Australia now and the car is still in storage and hasn't turned a wheel for a couple of years.
once you get a shell use whatever you can to form the shapes you want (foam, wood, filler....anything really) lightly tacked onto the car so you can get them off after then take your moulds off the shapes/buck and then you can press new parts out of your moulds and attach them to the car as part of the shell repair/prep. Have a go at moulding on something smaller first to get some practice.
you'll need some mould wax, pva mould release agent, gel coat and some matting and resin. There are some very good moulders on this forum like Mike Brown and John Dickens and there are probably posts on moulding on the forum so try a search. |
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| Brian |
| Posted on: June 23rd, 2014, 19:04:21 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: June 23rd, 2014, 20:13:19 |
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I have looked at that already but the main concern is if it has a logbook and it is a long drive away from me sadly but I will be keeping a watch on it
Alex |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: August 4th, 2014, 13:06:40 |
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After a lot more thinking, researching and faffing around I have come up with a colour scheme that I like the look of and think may suit the car. The colour scheme I am going for is similar to the Jensen interceptor of fast and furious 6. Someone has done a photoshop picture for me on a mk6 mini marcos gt.
The Jensen interceptor
Mini marcos gt photoshop; the colour is a bit off but hopefully you will get an idea the wheels haven't been changed.
I have a few concerns with a mk6 shell though after reading a few build logs of mk6s I have noticed that the subframes do not line up with each other and that the wheels stick out, apart from having custom subframes so to speak is there any way of altering the shell of the car?
Also to do the rear end conversion I need to do cut the floor for the rear wheel drive subframe. But the panel is metal. Is there anyway of bonding it to the shell? Or would marcos be able to mount it into place? While building a shell? There is also another conversion panel that would need to be mounted into place on the front bulkhead for the vtec subframe, would this be able to be fibre glassed into place or again would marcos heritage be able to mould it in? I have tried to ring today but sadly couldn't get through.
This is the rear wheel drive conversion panel fitting guide for a mini
http://www.superfastminis.com/Images/AWD%20MODS/AWD%20Panel%20Modifications.pdf
This is the conversion panel instillation guide to have right hand drive for the vtec subframe
http://www.superfastminis.com/.....allation%20Guide.pdf
The engine I am looking at installing into the marcos is a b18c4 or a b series type r both have a similar output in bhp and torque but the b18c4 is easier to get hold of so to speak. I am looking at turboing it as stated earlier in the thread(hopefully) I have started to list the mods on the engine if anyone is interested I will list them.
I am looking at buying john dickens fibreglassing book s well so hopefully I can get a better idea of what I need to do, when fibreglassing.
Regards
Alex |
Last modified August 4th, 2014, 13:07:01 by Alex_Rowbottom |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: August 4th, 2014, 17:06:24 |
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Anything can be done with time and money I doubt Marcos heritage would be interested without huge sums of money and to be honest you would be better off with a second hand shell due to the alterations you want to do. The other thing to bear in mind is technically if you want this road legal it would need an IVA though this is a big grey area. If I'm honest you sound like you need to find someone willing to do the body mods for you and I would recommend a full cage that ties front and rear together ie spaceframing it to a degree.
As to the subrame miss alignment it is possible to re drill and move the rear subframe with a little work but some years ago I did speak to a suspension guy he pointed out miss alignment is no problem provided the wheels are pointing in the correct direction ie all four parallel to the centre line (ignoring toe in/out etc) even if the measurments are different.
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| Brian |
| Posted on: August 4th, 2014, 20:46:32 |
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Location: San Mateo, CA, USA
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I talked to the heritage folks re: the subframe misalignment, and later did some measurements of my own. With the mk6, they did some work to center it as much as possible.
In fact, though, the whole car is slightly out of square. So, you have a choice of the wheels either all being square, or them all looking even with the bodywork. I take it as just one of the quirks of a hand designed car from before they used computers to do this stuff.
If you contact heritage, it sounded like they might have different floorpan options, but I didn't pursue that. They said the "race version" of the car was lighter than the street version, I'm not sure what the difference was, or if it simply meant that the race version was less likely to have things like carpet and glass installed. I also suspect you might be able to cut a deal with them to get one without a floorpan at all, and then you just set up a tube frame. |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: August 4th, 2014, 21:17:25 |
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Yeah a secound hand shell may be the way to go to be honest but I would like the mk6 look though. How do you mean it's a big grey area to get it road legal? Yeah I do agree that I need to get someone else to do the body mods but I don't know who would be able to do it. I know that yourself mike are capable but I remember that you said that you had a lot of work at the moment.
I do agree about the cage I was looking at ones that go through the bulkhead and floors so to speak that connect to the shell so for example a 16-20 point cage. I mean for the subframe minitec do custom frames so to speak so if needs be I could ask them to build it slightly different but I'd need to know how much different each side is.
I agree that it could look a bit funny with the wheels looking a bit off or with the body work but I don't want the car to crab so to speak.
I hadn't thought of space framing one but it could be a good idea but then it would be on a Q plate which isn't what I'd want. I mean ideally I'd like it to be tax exempt but I know I'd struggle to get one like that, unless I can find one that is slightly wrecked maybe.
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| Brian |
| Posted on: August 5th, 2014, 02:19:20 |
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Location: San Mateo, CA, USA
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A few things:
The mk6 standard car actually looks similar to the other historical MMs. The car you pictured is the "MK6 GT" (which happens to be a design that John D created and sold to the marcos heritage guys). You should be able to fit a GT frontend to pretty much any of the MM cars, and I believe that the heritage folks can sell just the frontend (it's a removable front).
Re: the off-centerness of the car -- mine doesn't look all so bad. There is a bit of a difference in the amount that the tire sticks out from side to side, but you only notice it when you get the tape measure out. My alignment guy didn't seem to have any issues with it, though I haven't put enough miles on it to get any sense of any uneven wear or handling characteristics that may or may not be present.
I'm unfamiliar with your IVA/other registration processes, however my impression is that it would be easier for you to get an old car and modify that rather than going through the IVA for a newly built kit car. If that's the case, and you like the GT frontend, perhaps just get an old car, and replace the nose (with a new one from either a moulding of another one or buy one from heritage spares).
If you are going to talk to heritage, ask them if they can do a floorpan without the spare tire well, since that will make it a bit more work to cut the floor out nicely for a rear engine. Or if doing a space frame, maybe see about getting them to just make the top part of the shell.
As for the dimensions for a modified frame from minitec, the MK4+ is, on paper, the same floorpan as the Mini Van/Traveller, so the floor line part of one of those cars should be pretty close (i'm not sure how that lines up with real life, not sure if anyone has measured it out close). For the MK1-3 MM, you would want the floorpan pattern from a standard mini.
Your earlier post sounded like you had a budget -- nothing about this project sounds like it will yield a low budget vehicle, though I'm sure we've discussed that before . |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: August 5th, 2014, 05:39:12 |
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Location: Southampton
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A new build needs an IVA and you get an age related plate if you use one donor, all new parts = new plate and random parts = Q plate.
Technically if you cut and modify a chassis/monocque you need and IVA, certain parts = points if there's not enough original part then it's IVA.
Your best bet is read the .gov website re kit cars/radically altered cars then read it again (it's not very clear at all) then read the IVA manual (free to down load)
Mike |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: August 5th, 2014, 10:58:18 |
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| Ah right okay I don't mind going through the iva as long as it doesn't go on a Q plate. But yeah an older car may be the better option does anyone know of any available for sale? A lot of modifications are going to be done to the shell and I know I am going to need to get someone to do it for me as I'm not going to be capable of carrying the work out myself. |
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| simon5666 |
| Posted on: August 8th, 2014, 19:00:10 |
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Quoted from admin, posted May 23rd, 2014, 19:36:05 at here |
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AJEC Racing tried to do a Zcars rear engine conversion with a Honda R engine. See
http://www.minimarcos.org/memcars/honda/
It wasn't very successful and is being converted back to standard in USA.
Mike Shilvock built a racer with a 2-litre Vauxhall engine in the back. There wasn't much left of the original car!
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that was my old car , a good idea but used the wrong company ... It wasn't a Z cars kit it was a one off custom by Ajec Racing , trouble was the company got sold part way through the build and some of the knowledge went with the original owner of the company. The original quote to do the work seemed to spiral until I had to admit defeat and let them sell the car online. Ajec Racing has since gone , mainly due to the owner being arrested for drug dealing ( 19 years !) and the mechanic who fabricated the exhaust got 9 years for dealing too. If your going to try to make a bike engine mini marcos or Honda vtec go to Z cars . I should of gone to them first . Would love to see photos of my old MM
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: August 15th, 2014, 23:51:45 |
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Does anyone know if the dimensions of theses seats would fit into a mini marcos?
Backrest Height: 918 mm (36.1 inches)
Shoulder Width: 517 mm (20.4 inches)
Seat Width: 511 mm (20.1 inches)
Seat Cushion Depth: 483 mm (19.0 inches) |
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| Brian |
| Posted on: August 16th, 2014, 16:20:33 |
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Location: San Mateo, CA, USA
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which seats are those? And is this a mk1-3 or 4-6?
My sparco evo 2 seats just barely fit into my mk6 -- I'm not sure I'd be able to fit side windows on the car with the seat. I need to find dimensions on it though. |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: August 16th, 2014, 17:14:39 |
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| They are recaro sportster cs and most likely mk4 |
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| Brian |
| Posted on: August 17th, 2014, 16:43:25 |
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My seats are these:
http://www.sparcousa.com/product/evo-ii#
If you look at the third image, it has fairly detailed dimensions on there.
The mounting plate, which sticks about 1cm on each side at the bottom, just barely fits between the exhaust tunnel and door sill. The shoulder wing is either just at, or just beyond the plane where the window would close. The top is about as close to the roof as I'd go (couple inches).
As a side note, my mk6 has a lowered floorpan, I don't know when that was introduced, but I suspect it was at mk5 or so. This means there's an additional 2" of headroom near the back of the seat pan. Probably only about 1" extra room where my seat is.
I would consider my seat to be the biggest fitting thing.
In a smaller car, I'd probably need to lean the seat back more, and also if I lifted the seat up a small bit off the floor pan, it would give room for a wider seat or room to move the seat closer to the center of the car, to allow a side window. |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: August 17th, 2014, 21:17:51 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: August 18th, 2014, 17:04:29 |
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I have found a mini marcos which I am interested in but it is on a Q plate, but I was wondering if there is a way in getting it off a q plate?
Any ideas? |
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| jimnaylor |
| Posted on: August 19th, 2014, 21:47:28 |
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| It's almost impossible to get a car off a q plate. The DVLA proceedures simply don't allow for it. |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: August 19th, 2014, 22:06:57 |
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Oh right okay even if it has all the correct paperwork with it? Like the original paper work with the car? Also what if it is registered incorrectly? As it is currently under the make leyland cars not marcos? Or D&H fibreglass?
Alex |
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| jimnaylor |
| Posted on: August 20th, 2014, 13:03:22 |
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If it's not registered as a Marcos and the v5 has no referance to Marcos, then you might do it by throwing the leyland v5 away and trying to register it as a new find and get an age related plate. But to do so as minimum it would need a genuine Marcos body/chassis plate and the mechanicals would need to be age related too. But it's iffy and would think you only stand a chance if its a mk3 or earlier. Registering new finds of old cars has been done quite a few times but it's not a simple process, google it,
Paperwork once it's q plated means nothing. I know someone with a 60's lotus europa on a q plate, DVLA agree it was wrongly put on a q plate (it had a chassis change, chassis for lotus' are classed as subframes so can be changed, the inspector didn't know that). But he has been arguing for about 5 years with the support of club lotus and getting nowhere. It's probably going to be exported to Japan where the reg doesn't matter.
Basically it's difficult because the whole reason the rules are there is to stop q cars being sold as genuine, which is ultimately what you are trying to do. |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: August 20th, 2014, 21:46:06 |
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| So essentially if I applied with a v62 form and wrote mini marcos for the make and model instead of Leland cars and wrote the chassis number and the engine number in I may be able to get a age related plate |
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| Brian |
| Posted on: August 20th, 2014, 23:40:58 |
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| From the sounds of it, the running gear would need to be from the same vintage as the car's age. Not sure if you'd be able to register it with an old engine, then do your swap you've been looking at... |
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Reply: 87 - 113 |
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| jimnaylor |
| Posted on: August 21st, 2014, 12:47:18 |
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Big Member
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 221
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I think a V62 is the wrong form. Read these:
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/old-vehicles
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/new-registrations
But I strongly suggest you do a through hunt on registering old vehicles and age related plate on google before doing anything.
With things like this there are lots of pitfalls, so something wrong and you might not be able to recover from it. (such as getting it classed incorrectly). There are lots of stories out there.
The DVLA don't do things like this often and the people move about. It can very much depend who you get first looking at your case. But once they have the genuine body number you are in the system so you need to make sure you are doing it right.
Also be aware they may want to inspect the vehicle to check it is what you say it is, hence the mechanicals need to be of the correct age. If they are not an inspector could easily say it's a kit car not a genuine old car which then means a Q plate. Then you are totally stuffed. |
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Reply: 88 - 113 |
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| jimnaylor |
| Posted on: August 21st, 2014, 13:16:40 |
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Big Member
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 221
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Just looking at the forms highlights the type of issues you will find.
To get a new reg number your car needs a valid MOT, but as far as I'm aware you can't get an MOT without a reg number...... nothing is simple. |
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Reply: 89 - 113 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: August 21st, 2014, 20:56:39 |
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Minimum Member
Posts: 72
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| I'm not overly fussed about the number plate it'd just be getting it registered correctly as mini marcos |
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Reply: 90 - 113 |
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| jimnaylor |
| Posted on: August 21st, 2014, 23:40:24 |
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Big Member
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 221
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| If you are happy keeping the Q plate then it should be reasonably easy. All that needs doing (I think) is explaining the true position to the dvla. But contact Roger directly first, you will almost certainly need a letter from him to back up what you are saying and make it all go smoothly. I had a some fundamental details wrong on my v5 that were sorted by just correspondance with the DVLA, but they did want backup from Roger. |
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Reply: 91 - 113 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: August 21st, 2014, 23:50:14 |
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Minimum Member
Posts: 72
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| I had thought about contacting Rodger to see what he says about the logbook situation. Concerning the number plates I was going to look into a private plate so to speak. |
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Reply: 92 - 113 |
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| jimnaylor |
| Posted on: August 22nd, 2014, 12:25:31 |
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Big Member
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 221
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I don't think you can put a private plate on a Q car, but by all means check.
Get all your ducks in a row before you do anything with the DVLA, and be sure what you want. Once you start dealings with DVLA it's very hard to change if you make a mistake. I know that from bitter experience on other cars. |
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Reply: 93 - 113 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: September 4th, 2014, 22:37:10 |
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Right guys hopefully I am looking at a marcos on Saturday is there anything I should be looking for like bad things so to speak? Any help and advice will be much appreciated
Alex |
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Reply: 94 - 113 |
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| Steve_Schmidt |
| Posted on: September 5th, 2014, 09:18:31 |
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Medium Member
Location: Gippsland, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 167
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With the sort of modifications you've been outlining in earlier posts, I really don't think it matters what condition the car you're going to look at is in  . However, it's probably worth checking the integrity of the fibreglassed-in metal crossmember in the front bulkhead and the general condition of the fibreglass and gelcoat. This was by far the trickiest and most time consuming aspect of my car's restoration. |
Steve (MM 7056) Downunder
http://www.mm7056.wordpress.com |
Last modified September 5th, 2014, 09:37:34 by Steve_Schmidt |
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Reply: 95 - 113 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: September 5th, 2014, 09:57:09 |
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Minimum Member
Posts: 72
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| The rear end of the car looks like it has cracked quiet badly if I'm honest is there anyway of checking the bulkhead? |
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Reply: 96 - 113 |
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| Steve_Schmidt |
| Posted on: September 5th, 2014, 10:26:03 |
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Medium Member
Location: Gippsland, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 167
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Look for delaminating between the fibreglass and metal - evidenced by fibreglass lifting up causing an uneven surface, discolouration and a hollow feel when pressed.
Cracks can be fixed, as can delamination and rusted metal inserts - it just depends on what you're paying for the car, expectations, and what you're prepared to spend in time and money, to achieve what you're after. |
Steve (MM 7056) Downunder
http://www.mm7056.wordpress.com |
Last modified September 5th, 2014, 11:47:32 by Steve_Schmidt |
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Reply: 97 - 113 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: September 6th, 2014, 13:18:05 |
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Right well I went to look at the mini marcos and it was a promising start till me and my dad started looking, around where the bonnet sat the gel coat had come off in places and exposed the weave of the fabric, around the front shock mounts the fibreglass had cracked quiet badly and had small holes developing where the cracks were, the front bumper had a small hole as well where it had been hit by something. The inside was soaked so it seemed that the sun roof was leaking and or the doors weren't sealing properly there was damage to the rear end on the drivers side and it had gotten damp by the feel of it, the tailgate had warped badly as well so it didn't shut properly. We made a reasonable offer which was rejected, the gentleman went into the house and when he came out he said £300 more then what we offered but when we worked out how much it was going to cost us to get it back we decided to leave it.
So the search continues, so I'm still looking guys
Alex |
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Reply: 98 - 113 |
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| David_Farmer |
| Posted on: September 7th, 2014, 06:32:54 |
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Location: Staines
Posts: 77
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| So what was his minimum price and which marque was it? |
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Reply: 99 - 113 |
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| Stuart |
| Posted on: September 8th, 2014, 08:13:34 |
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Big Member
Location: Peak District
Posts: 284
Reputation: 1 (tot: 1) |
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Reply: 100 - 113 |
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| L_Jonez |
| Posted on: September 8th, 2014, 19:03:27 |
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Baby Member
Location: S.Wales
Posts: 9
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Reply: 101 - 113 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: September 9th, 2014, 21:42:12 |
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Minimum Member
Posts: 72
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| I have had a look at a couple the orange one on ebay I have looked at |
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Reply: 102 - 113 |
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| Stuart |
| Posted on: September 10th, 2014, 09:59:20 |
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Big Member
Location: Peak District
Posts: 284
Reputation: 1 (tot: 1) |
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Reply: 103 - 113 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: September 10th, 2014, 10:43:45 |
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Minimum Member
Posts: 72
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I had seen that in ebay this morning, but at this moment in time I'm looking for a mini marcos, I am looking at another one tomorrow so we will see how that goes
Alex |
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Reply: 104 - 113 |
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| admin |
| Posted on: September 11th, 2014, 09:54:59 |
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Administrator
Location: Maidenhead, UK
Posts: 2,369
Reputation: 1 (tot: 1) |
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| That's 7532. Owner has been a club member. Don't know current status. |
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Reply: 105 - 113 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: September 11th, 2014, 21:06:01 |
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Minimum Member
Posts: 72
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Right well I looked at another tonight and well it needed a lot of work it was good to say the least in my personal opinion. Where the front subframe mounts to the floor it seemed that the mounts had come through the floor or was starting to come through the floor. It had been repaired in multiple areas and was the best of repair jobs and the sill had cracked quiet badly on the drivers side, the best way to describe is that it seemed like it had been in a bump and been repaired badly, so I walked away so I'm still looking guys
Alex |
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Reply: 106 - 113 |
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| Stuart |
| Posted on: September 11th, 2014, 21:10:50 |
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Big Member
Location: Peak District
Posts: 284
Reputation: 1 (tot: 1) |
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“ |
Quoted from Alex_Rowbottom, posted September 11th, 2014, 21:06:01 at here |
” |
Right well I looked at another tonight and well it needed a lot of work it was good to say the least in my personal opinion. Where the front subframe mounts to the floor it seemed that the mounts had come through the floor or was starting to come through the floor. It had been repaired in multiple areas and was the best of repair jobs and the sill had cracked quiet badly on the drivers side, the best way to describe is that it seemed like it had been in a bump and been repaired badly, so I walked away so I'm still looking guys
Alex
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do you mean wasn't twice, as in was not good. was not the best repair job. |
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Reply: 107 - 113 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: September 11th, 2014, 21:13:15 |
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Minimum Member
Posts: 72
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| Yeah sorry wasn't a very good repair job |
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Reply: 108 - 113 |
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| Alex_Rowbottom |
| Posted on: September 15th, 2014, 23:40:36 |
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Minimum Member
Posts: 72
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Right another question guys
What are mini marcos' registered as on a logbook?
For example the make model and so on
Alex |
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Reply: 109 - 113 |
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| Simon Robinson |
| Posted on: September 16th, 2014, 10:57:13 |
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Big Member
Location: Northampton
Posts: 335
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| Alex - it seems to vary depending on who filled in the original form. Mine is registered as make "Mini" and model "Marcos". |
D&H Mk IV 8313, KGV 215V (aka George) - 75,000 miles and counting since restoration in 2011. |
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Reply: 110 - 113 |
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| admin |
| Posted on: September 17th, 2014, 07:30:59 |
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Administrator
Location: Maidenhead, UK
Posts: 2,369
Reputation: 1 (tot: 1) |
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| It's not just that. Quite a lot of them were built without telling the predecessors of the DVLA (council licensing departments), so they kept the original registration as Austin, Morris, BMC, Mini, etc. Where the conversion was declared they were registered either new or with the donor registration mark but as Marcos, Mini Marcos, Mini-Marcos, etc. The authorities use marque and make indiscriminately so although the forms all say "make" in practice D&H Mk.IVs tend to be registered as Mini Marcos and not D&H Fibreglass Techniques. However I did have a Jem registered as a Fellpoint. |
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Reply: 111 - 113 |
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| Jeremy Harrison |
| Posted on: September 17th, 2014, 16:26:01 |
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Baby Member
Posts: 37
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My Mini Jem V5C shows the Chassis number as RS.M2.1091 and the make is registered simply as a Jem.
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Last modified September 17th, 2014, 18:11:22 by Jeremy Harrison |
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Reply: 112 - 113 |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: October 3rd, 2014, 16:53:16 |
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Big Member
Location: Southampton
Posts: 374
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Reply: 113 - 113 |
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Mini Marcos Forum > General Boards > Mini Marcos > A few questions
