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  Author    Marcos 7184  (currently 2,603 views)
Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 8th, 2014, 14:17:10 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hi

I just bought a mini marcos MkIII from 1968, number 7184
The mini based is a BMC Saloon from 1972 (thanks Richard for information).

I hope learn more informations on Mini Marcos, my target is to do some modification regarding suspensions, brakes... to drive it in regularity rallye.

I will restore the body too. Delete the rear fin to have the genuine body shape...
Color not choose for moment, I am looking for mini color on 1968.

See you on forum or french roads.

Herve

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Brian
Posted on: June 8th, 2014, 16:33:51 Quote Report to Moderator
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Welcome, and congrats on the new purchase!

You mentioned that you were trying to learn more about the car; did you have specific questions?

And, pictures, please?
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 8th, 2014, 19:07:31 Quote Report to Moderator
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Thanks,

for the moment, I have no specific questions, I read diffirent forum, more mini at this time to see all what is done on suspension....
After, I will see whith what I will start. One of my disapointed is the engine, it is a 12A2B so not from 1968. No important for that time, perhaps I change it in the future.

My idea is to put disk brake, tie bar rod adjustable, HI LO kit, new cones.... to have a better feeling on road. After, make a new interior. I will keep the seats but change carpet, dashboard & steering wheel.

for more pictures of the car, find below a link.

https://picasaweb.google.com/h.....&feat=directlink
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Denis
Posted on: June 9th, 2014, 11:02:54 Quote Report to Moderator
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Bonjour Herve,

Bievenu au forum.
Tu et d'ou en France?

Denis
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 9th, 2014, 11:47:49 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hi Denis

Je suis sur les yvelines, presque en Eure et loire.

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Denis
Posted on: June 10th, 2014, 14:13:24 Quote Report to Moderator
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Pas loin de ce moi.  

Juste a cote de Lille 59.

Quand tu passe par ici tu me rend visité.
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Nigel_Holmes
Posted on: June 14th, 2014, 17:07:27 Quote Report to Moderator
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Herve, welcome to the MM forum.

You mention suspension mods, some suggestions :
- use 1.5 negative camber front lower arms (minispares, non adjustable)
- would not bother with adjustable tie-rods in first instance
- careful with uprated tie-rod rubbers, too hard will cause other problems
- my preferred disc set-up would be 7.5 inch, allows you to use 10 inch wheels
- if you can get old style hi-los use these on front only
- for rear suspension watch out, this uses van/estate trumpets and shocks
- keep rear brake cylinders 5/8 bore or less to avoid wheels locking
- put rear wheels dead vertical, with small amount of toe-in

On my mk3 this gives good road holding, but still tends to be tail-happy in wet
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 14th, 2014, 21:21:49 Quote Report to Moderator
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thanks for advises.
For brake system, yes, I will put 7,5 because I wanto to keep my 10 inch wheel.
A little beat expense but I think that will completly change the brake filling.
For the suspensions mod, I am looking for the good compromise between road use & rallye use (but regularity rallye - don't know if regularity is the good word). I don't want drive on track.
At first, I have to build new garage, mine is full with my Alpine & old russian sidecar.
Restoration will start end of the year I think.
Just time to catch information & save money  
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Steve_Schmidt
Posted on: June 15th, 2014, 00:53:38 Quote Report to Moderator
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Thank you for posting the link to your album of photographs, to see all the detail shots of the way your Marcos was built helps me, and I'm sure many others, to work out how their cars are meant to go together.
Are you intending to convert it to left-hand-drive? I guess it would be a fairly simple conversion, and would be worthwhile seeing as you live in France.

Steve (MM 7056) Downunder
http://www.mm7056.wordpress.com

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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 15th, 2014, 05:18:07 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hi Steve

It is just the beginning, i Will take more pictures during the disassembly ( help other people but particulary me to remerber how it was assembly first   )
Concerning the RHD, defenitely not. I keep it. Marcos is English car, RHD is in the package. No problem in France, just a habit to take. Besides, my Marcos does not be my daily car so it is not important.
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Nigel_Holmes
Posted on: June 16th, 2014, 19:27:36 Quote Report to Moderator
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Herve,

If you have time before taking the MM apart would be worth checking all of the suspension camber angles front and rear. This will tell you how much you may need to alter the camber. The rear in particular can go positive if the car has been spun into a kerb, this can bend the rear radius arm.

Just about all of the suspension mods used for Minis will also be relevant for MM, but remember that the weight on rear wheels of MM is much lower than Mini. All up weight for a Mini is about 650kg, but my std Mk3 MM is about 530kg with roll hoop (no roll cage) and much of this weight comes off the back...
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 24th, 2014, 16:43:23 Quote Report to Moderator
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Thanks Nigel, i Will Check.

Another question

Currently my bonnet is attached with 2 quick clips and two straps.
While searching in the photo gallery, I see that some bonnets are fastened with 4 quick clips or with 2 quick clips & with a classic opening pivot system (forward opening).

Do you have pictures of the implantation of the rod for the quick clip (rear & front) because mine are not stiff.
For those who have classic opening, do you have pictures of the shaft & pivot in order to know where there are positioning.

thank you
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: July 20th, 2014, 19:43:10 Quote Report to Moderator
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hi
i have bad surprise end of week, when i put my MM in the garage by pusing by hand, i heared a "crack" and saw my damper on the wheel. The shock absorber top front bracket was snatched from the body. it seems that the plate to screw the bracket are into the fibre body shell.
do you think it is realist to repair without disassembly the subframe or engine ?
does someone do repair in this area ?
thanks you
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Brian
Posted on: July 21st, 2014, 03:57:49 Quote Report to Moderator
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Do you have a picture?

The top of the shock should attach to a standard mini shock top bracket, which should bolt to the shell just above the top subframe bolts. I haven't mounted mine yet, so I don't know the exact location yet.

Did your shell break where the top shock bracket gets bolted to it? Or the bolts pulled through? I don't believe there's any metal embedded in the fiberglass there, at least not on my mk6.

I haven't yet decided what I want to do for mounting, or whether I want to do some sort of reinforcement, so I'm interested in the outcome of this discussion for that.
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mike brown
Posted on: July 21st, 2014, 05:49:40 Quote Report to Moderator
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The mk3 has the cross member from a mini bulkhead inside the fibreglass at the front and an additional steel plate either side the shock brackets bolt through both. Unfortunately these bits rust causing movement the cheap but temporary fix is remove the bolts put a spreader plate on the inside top and bottom and refit with longer bolts. The complete fix is remove subframe etc cut out steel and either replace with new or rebuild with more fibreglass not snob for the faint hearted. I've just done this job on Dave farmers mk3 see  fibreglasser wanted for hire thread in greasy bits.
Mike
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: July 22nd, 2014, 14:47:29 Quote Report to Moderator
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hi

thanks for informations, I have seen the mounting on mini on internet, i was not sure on the MM. I think it will be better to rebuild the area properly and do the same for the right side too in order to ovoid the problem.
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admin
Posted on: July 23rd, 2014, 17:06:44
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Photo for Hervé. Sorry one or two members are having problems uploading photos.

Front damper bracket mount.


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admin
Posted on: July 23rd, 2014, 17:07:12
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The other one.

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mike brown
Posted on: July 23rd, 2014, 21:12:36 Quote Report to Moderator
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Looking at the photo it's pulled through both the cross member, steel plate and the fibreglass. Your only real coarse of repair is cut it all out and rebuild with either new metal or if you know what your doing it is possible to do it with just fibreglass.
Mike
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Brian
Posted on: July 23rd, 2014, 21:45:32 Quote Report to Moderator
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Okay, jumping in here -- for my car, any hints on where these should be mounting? I've been unable to determine any good locations for the shock mounts on my MK6. It sounds like those will be into the side of the cross-member? I'm not aware of any markings that will let me locate them in there. Is this going to be another probing trip in which I try to use lights and magnets, etc to find that?
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mike brown
Posted on: July 24th, 2014, 05:39:48 Quote Report to Moderator
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The simplest way is to remove the rubber "spring" and allow the top arm to sit hard against the bump stop. Position the damper fully compressed add about 15mm and mark. Repeat at full droop only extend the damper fully this time and minus about 15mm and mark. Now posstion the damper somewhere between the two to best suit mounting (ie bolt clearance). Temporary fix in this position now swing the suspension through a fully cycle make sure it doesn't bottom out either end (allow a bit more for bump stop compression) then drill off and reassemble.
Mike
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Brian
Posted on: July 24th, 2014, 07:49:02 Quote Report to Moderator
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Ah, I take that to mean that there aren't pre drilled and tapped holes sitting somewhere behind the fiberglass? Ive already done that expedition to find the brake/clutch cylinder holes...

What's behind there? Is that into the side of the crossmember?

Before I saw this thread, I was thinking the only option would be to drill some holes, and use nuts and a backing plate, through the vertical fiberglass piece separating the engine bay from the wheel wells, and somehow reinforce the holes to prevent them from widening -- something I was skeptical about, which is why I still have no front shocks installed.
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mike brown
Posted on: July 24th, 2014, 09:10:21 Quote Report to Moderator
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Earlier cars you picked up holes just above and below the steel mini crossmember. I think mk4 had custom steel plates either side instead of a full crossmember I believe mk5 didn't have steel at all. I've seen shocks mounted with the bracket bolts either side of the crossmember mk3-4 and a mk5 with two in between and two above. As long as they don't bottom out either end, don't rub and are in the right plain they'll be fine.
Mike
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 6th, 2015, 10:59:05 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hi everybody

After a long period (due to newborned twins), I could start the work on the marcos.
As a good frog boy, I have to buy tools in inches and not metric.



First step, disassembly the interior in order to have a lighter car to move.
Surprise, steel on the floor, severals damage on the shell, fiber work to take into account for future.




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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 6th, 2015, 17:14:51 Quote Report to Moderator
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we will lift the body with a system fixed on front subframe fixation. Just a steel bar with a cut of scare tube which slide on it. We could balance the car during the lift.









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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 6th, 2015, 17:20:17 Quote Report to Moderator
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the under of the shell is not in good conditions (wood parts are fixed in the tunnel for the gearbox linkage)





Shell view at the front suspension bracket. We will work on it during the restauration (on both side) and we will make new steel insert
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 6th, 2015, 17:25:08 Quote Report to Moderator
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So, we will take off the engine from subframe



Finally, the front subframe is in good condition. Just a sanding & new paint and it will be ok


Santa Claus works for me !!
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 6th, 2015, 17:30:13 Quote Report to Moderator
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After front subframe, go for rear subframe. We have a lot of difficulty to disassembly from the body (one day to take off). All bolt are rusty and we have to drill it and finally, cut the body (we broke 2 drills)





Rear subframe is very rusty, with lot of deformations & cracks. Fortunetly, a friend of my dad have one in good condition. Give for free. Thanks Georges.
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 6th, 2015, 17:35:41 Quote Report to Moderator
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Ok, disassembly is fun but how I will paint the car.
My wife created severals proposal and below, that I choose.
The rear fin will be cut, I do not like it.



In order to have a better idea, I put scotch to simulate. At the end, I have to change the place of the line to the other side because the fuel cap breaks the vision.





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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 6th, 2015, 17:38:00 Quote Report to Moderator
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Next step, in august because the car is 600 km far from me.
To be continued.....
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Steve_Schmidt
Posted on: June 6th, 2015, 22:27:35 Quote Report to Moderator
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Well done Herve, you've made a great start, and I like the stripe concept - now the real work begins  
Looking forward to more updates as you make progress.

Steve (MM 7056) Downunder
http://www.mm7056.wordpress.com
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admin
Posted on: June 8th, 2015, 21:32:07 Quote Report to Moderator
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Interesting place to put the spoiler! Usually they are mounted on the tail just below the window.
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 9th, 2015, 17:48:38 Quote Report to Moderator
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yes, very strange. i bought my Marcos like that.
I don't like, the shape of the body is completly different with it. For my use, I think spoiler is not necessary, i will use it for classic car rally in regularity, no speed interest. Besides, I have a classic 1275 BO so, with 65 HP....
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Brian
Posted on: June 9th, 2015, 22:37:10 Quote Report to Moderator
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It's like the BMW Mini Coopers -- some have a small spoiler at the back of the roof  . A bit out of place on the MM.
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: June 28th, 2015, 09:10:27 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hi

I received some parts ordered to improve the car

Brakes : brake conversion kit to original 7.5" : shield, bracket, caliper + new shoes for rear…
Engine :  head gasket kit, new clutch disc, we will check all pipe
Front and rear damper : new bracket (old one are too rusty) + damper Gaz adjustable
Suspension : new road/rally rubber cone, kit HI LO, geometry items for fitting angle (front & rear)
Interior : new Motolita 13'' dished wood steering wheel, new Smiths tachometer gauge & voltmeter. I will design a new dashboard, perhaps in aluminum
Electric : new wire, old one have lot of cut & weld. We will put fuses (for tripmaster & time cell system)

Aims is to mix modernity (for reliability) & classic (for styling)

I have to buy shell mirror & reinforce the system for the interior mirror because with vibrations is always wonky.
Does someone made modification for that ? (perhaps just change the mirror will be enough. A new kneecap wil work better)

For the plate which hides the spare wheel & battery, what do you use ? (just wood, like balsa wood)







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Herve_barriere
Posted on: August 2nd, 2015, 15:49:40 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hi

I wonder me if is it possible to put an aluminium 2 core radiator in our Marcos. It seems to me that the space is not big enough. The top of the curent radiator is in interference with the bodyshell at this time. As i want to keep the radiator in the side, does someone have a 2 core in side place ?

Thanks
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admin
Posted on: August 4th, 2015, 10:09:31 Quote Report to Moderator
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Using a front radiator and electric fan is the preferred way to go. You can have a side radiator but you need to drop it about 2cm or so in the fan cowling so that the filler cap doesn't foul the bonnet or the lip of the engine bay.. See the Mk.III or Mk.IV build sheet on the web site (see 'The Cars' menu). I haven't tried using an aluminium rad but it it's a direct replacement for the Mini rad it should be OK.

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Herve_barriere
Posted on: August 4th, 2015, 12:34:58 Quote Report to Moderator
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Ok Thanks, i will have a sight. My Target is to keep the rad side because I prefer with opening front (styling preference). With front rad, i think i am obliged to close the front. For performance, sure you are right, front position is better for cooling.

Another question, i will make new electric wires. Do you use mini wire and adapt it or use it like that ?

Regards
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admin
Posted on: August 4th, 2015, 23:44:27 Quote Report to Moderator
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With a front rad you don't need to close the gap. Leaving it open will help keep the exhaust manifold a bit cooler.

As far as the wiring loom is concerned I strip down a Mini loom, lay in the wires that I need where I want them, loosely tape the wires together, then take the loom out out and bind it properly with loom tape. The main changes I make are:

- headlamp and front indicator wires taken back under the wings and into the dash area from each side.
 It helps to keep these sections separate so that the headlamp bowls can be removed if necessary.
- extra earth wires where needed. Headlamps are earthed to the engine on each side. Rear lights are earthed to
 the battery terminal connector as are the fuel gauge sender and electric fuel pump.
 Remember that the starter solenoid bracket needs to be earthed if mounted on fibreglass.
- separate thick cable from battery +ve to alternator, fuse box and ignition switch via ammeter
 (avoids voltage drop over starter cable).
- relays for headlamps, driving lamps, rad fan and air horns.
- some wires need to be extended to reach rear lights or instruments.
- manual override switch for electric radiator fan.
- 9-way connector on speedo head (big round Mini type) so the whole thing can be removed easily.

Note that the rear section of the loom goes through the left hand sill, not over the door.

I hope that helps. Obviously a lot of what you do is a matter of personal preference and what bits of equipment you have. It helps to start off with a loom that meets most of your requirements, in particular whether you are using Clubman instruments or normal Mini ones.

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Graham Bichard
Posted on: August 5th, 2015, 10:43:02 Quote Report to Moderator
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Quoted from admin, posted August 4th, 2015, 23:44:27 at here
With a front rad you don't need to close the gap. Leaving it open will help keep the exhaust manifold a bit cooler.



Isn't it better to keep the exhaust manifold as hot as possible to aid with gas speed?  That's one of the reasons for using exhaust wrap - keeping the heat in the manifold to keep it hotter (as well as aiding with keeping under bonnet temperature down).

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admin
Posted on: August 5th, 2015, 21:59:45 Quote Report to Moderator
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When I put the front panel on my Marcos I found that the fibreglass behind the exhaust manifold was getting scorched. This could only have happened because the air flow was reduced. I alleviated the problem by fitting sheets of aluminium behind the manifold and spaced off the bulkhead. I could have taped up the manifold but this would have moved the problem to the down pipe which runs quite close to the floor where it passes the gearbos remote.
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: August 16th, 2015, 16:58:29 Quote Report to Moderator
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hi

thanks for informations for wires.

Unfortunately, I have some problems with slave & master cylinder on my Alpine A310 so holidays has been dedicated to solve problems on it.

Fortunately, the guy who will work on the body shell cames.
Preconisations are to make a complete aerogommage of the shell in order to see all cracks, then repair all damaged zone, new fiber on all the car. On top of that, inox plate for suspension bracket, same for the bonnet and change the front upper subframe enclosed in the fiber (lot of rust on it).

See below pictures of the front crossmember subframe. does any one of you change this part ? we think to do a new one in inox too.
If someone have a drawing of this part, i am interested in.

what do you think of change it ? i think it will not be easy but sure is best for the car.

thanks



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admin
Posted on: August 19th, 2015, 10:12:21 Quote Report to Moderator
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There's an article by Craig Smith in Magazzine 115, Spring 2010 on crossmember replacement. Back numbers are available from Allan Brown. Craig is on the forum and on facebook.

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Herve_barriere
Posted on: September 5th, 2017, 22:37:49 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hi Guys

I'm back, twins have grown, we relive.
We disassembly completly the car, now, bodyshell is in work (aero blasting, fiber, change on metal part...)

We will change the bulkhead, ordered in Marcos heritage. Note that painting on the new part is not good, we have been obliged to repaint some zone because of lack of painting. Marcos Heritage said me that it is a problem with his supplier, it's like that (to me, not good arhument for new part).

I have one question. When I bought my marcos, the bulkhead was cut in carburator zone !!! not good for rigidy I think. (see picture). My concern is that with new bulkhed, we could not put in place the carburator. The engine is a british open one transformed in carburator instead of injection (I bought it like that).

For you, Is there an alternative ? could I change my SU by another one (for information, I am not intersted in weber one because my engine has no modifications to have more HP)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/x01u03abV1m2eNxB3
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mike brown
Posted on: September 6th, 2017, 05:58:52 Quote Report to Moderator
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Some inlet manifolds give better clearance so you could try a different one. Cutting the bulkhead is no problem as long as the hole is fibreglassed over later cars have no steel in the middle of the bulkhead and the steel is only there to stop the bolts crushing through.
Mike
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: September 6th, 2017, 20:43:25 Quote Report to Moderator
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Thanks Mike for information. I Will investi gâte on inlet manifold. We will manage space behind carburator too, it will be better.
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Henrik and Joergen
Posted on: September 10th, 2017, 12:47:56
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Bonjour Herve

On 7012 we have a 4 inch manifold from Mini Sport and it fits nice. Also tried a 6 inch but it doesent fit in our car. As chassis 7012 suggest this is also a mk3 so I would expect a 4 inch is optimum for your car too! The carb is a 45DCOE.

Joergen

7012 owners Henrik and Joergen

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Herve_barriere
Posted on: September 13th, 2017, 21:07:09 Quote Report to Moderator
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Thanks Joergen, I will check. One of my concern is I don't install a Weber Carb because my engine came from a british open (I bought it like that). Perhaps one day i will change the engine but for the moment, I prefere restaure the body & have good brakes, suspension...
I will have a look on 4 inches, perhaps it could solve my problem.

I will post photo as soon as i have return from the guy who repares the body.
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: September 30th, 2017, 13:56:12 Quote Report to Moderator
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Body shell work has just started.
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: October 8th, 2017, 15:26:40 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: France
Posts: 47
Here some pictures after blasting. body shell is in worst condition than I hoped.
at least, she will be very good condition for the next 50 years to come.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/1xrl6wc5t0xnwi8/P1060287.JPG?dl=0[img][/img]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl9vt05jhjqbpx7/P1060278.JPG?dl=0[img][/img]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k5lgj9p2jiz9t7r/P1060288.JPG?dl=0[img][/img]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/degdg8mbdfswv4w/P1060282.JPG?dl=0[img][/img]
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Gary Marlow
Posted on: October 8th, 2017, 19:45:38 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hello Herve,
Looks like it has had a large life and has had quite a heavy shunt in the front.
Doesn't look like it would be too difficult to put right, but if the front is like that guess that all of the metal work is pretty well corroded.
Like you say when done should be able to last another 50 years.
Please keep us updated of the progress of the restoration.
Regards
Gary
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John_Newell
Posted on: November 6th, 2017, 09:51:01 Quote Report to Moderator
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Morning all, New Member on the Isle of Man UK with Chassis Number 8162.
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Neil KilBane
Posted on: November 6th, 2017, 22:50:50 Quote Report to Moderator
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just a little fine tuning left to do.


Location: Newtown Forbes, Ireland
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Welcom John,
Saw your car on the FB page, another one saved from the undergrowth, perhaps Joost will post some photos of his hedge find adventure to give you a bit of encouragement.

 

Last modified November 6th, 2017, 22:51:23 by Neil KilBane
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JERSEYMAN
Posted on: November 7th, 2017, 10:49:12 Quote Report to Moderator
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Posts: 17
Also welcome John.

("Saw your car on the FB page" is this the group called "Marcos Mini?, if so I would be interested in how you actually managed to join it, I have had a pending request for a good number of weeks)
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: November 15th, 2017, 20:52:18 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: France
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Hi John

Welcome on board. Always good To have new member.
Open a new discussion for your car please, it will be easier to follow each restauration or car.
Hope read you and see more picture soon
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: November 15th, 2017, 20:54:41 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: France
Posts: 47
Some news of my dead nose and bonnet. Perhaps good news and possibility to have a nose of Le mans 1967. For The moment project in stand by just The Time to find another nose but I hope that The body Will be ready for end of spring.
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mike brown
Posted on: November 16th, 2017, 06:19:35 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Southampton
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I have bonnet and front panel moulds or failing that a flip front mould (allan browns race car front) if it helps.
Mike
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Herve_barriere
Posted on: November 16th, 2017, 18:40:20 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: France
Posts: 47
Thanks Mike. I will Try to find something in France ait first and if I don't, i will gent in touch with you
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John_Newell
Posted on: November 18th, 2017, 12:07:31 Quote Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JERSEYMAN, posted November 7th, 2017, 10:49:12 at here
Also welcome John.

("Saw your car on the FB page" is this the group called "Marcos Mini?, if so I would be interested in how you actually managed to join it, I have had a pending request for a good number of weeks)



I emailed the Admin with a pic of the car and its details. I know he's not at the computer 24/7 though
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