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  Author    introduction and subframe alignment question  (currently 1,395 views)
Jamie_Smith
Posted on: September 25th, 2014, 19:42:45 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Standon, Hertfordshire, UK.
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Hi all,

Firstly an introduction: I've just joined the MMOC having recently bought a Mini Marcos MkIII (Chassis number 7413) for restoration. Apologies in advance for asking loads of basic questions that have probably been covered before on the forum!

My first question is as follows-

The car is in pretty good shape mechanically though I am going to completely strip the car and rebuild with some upgraded parts and new seals / bushes etc where required and the subframes will be removed to facilitate this - is there a need to aligning the subframes when refitting to avoid crabbing and if so whats the best way to achieve this?

Thanks in advance for any replies.


Jamie
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James_Beeton
Posted on: September 25th, 2014, 19:50:36 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hi Jamie,  welcome to the MM owners community, I am on my second car now and every owner I have met up with has been helpful and generous... You will get answers to your questions  and there is no limit to how many to ask!!! ...good luck James,,
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Brian
Posted on: September 25th, 2014, 20:34:25 Quote Report to Moderator
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I don't have direct experience with the earlier cars, but had discussed this a bit re: my MK6 which also has an offset subframe.

I think the verdict is that: there's not much alignment possible/needed -- the chassis was made crooked from the moulds. That said, it doesn't matter. Get the wheels straight, don't use a laser alignment machine which may get confused (admittedly, I had mine done with a laser alignment to get started, I haven't driven it enough since to determine if that's a problem). At least in my car, and I believe with the earlier ones, the subframes are straight to eachother, just not exactly in line with eachother. It's possible to get all 4 wheels pointing in the same direction, though.

Probably the biggest downside to the offset subframes is that the wheels on one side will stick out further than the other. This could be an issue if you need to do an MOT, having a tire uncovered by the fenders. I think some people have put on smaller, narrower, tires for the purpose of the MOT test, then switched back to the desired ones.

Over here in California, I was a bit worried about the wheels sticking out, but the CHP didn't even look twice. Granted, my MK6 has bigger fender flares, and they have offset the holes to make the wheels look a bit more even side-to-side. I will say that the "modifications" they did to un-offset is to drill the holes at the front of the rear subframe, offset from center of the floor pan. The holes were so far over that I couldn't even use standard bolts for the (american) passenger side rear subframe front mounts -- it was too close to the side of the car. I ended up using an allen head bolt, and cut off the side of a washer to provide some basic spreading ability, and was just able to attach it -- because of that, I had to run the bolt from the inside of the car, out into the subframe (in order to put the smaller allen head inside the cabin where the clearance was non-existent) which was a bit of a challenge.
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Brian
Posted on: September 25th, 2014, 20:38:24 Quote Report to Moderator
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Oh yeah, and welcome to the forum! And ask away with the questions. I just went through the whole "tons of questions" phase over the past year, and will try to help out where I can, though there are some considerably more experienced folks on here who will likely have further details or corrections .

I think the most important part is: pictures of the new ride! And keep the details of your rebuild coming, to help some of the rest of us keep motivated on our projects! (I'm very close to having mine on the road, I swear!)
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Jamie_Smith
Posted on: September 25th, 2014, 21:15:48 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Standon, Hertfordshire, UK.
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Thanks for the replies chaps.

Brian - thank you for the detailed reply, I think I'll check the alignment with the subframes still in place and I'm going with fully adjustable suspension so I'll hopefully be able to dial out any slight alignment irregularities.

When will yours be on the road? Are there many MM's in the US? So many questions !!  

I'll upload some pictures of 7413 when i work out how to resize them. In the 'job list and new parts collection' phase at the moment (already spent a small fortune at Mini Spares) with work going to start over the winter - can't wait.
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Jamie_Smith
Posted on: September 25th, 2014, 21:27:42
Attachment: mm7413.jpg - 140.54 KB (1480 views)
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Location: Standon, Hertfordshire, UK.
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Photo of MM7413 attached.

Bit more than a quick tune up required  

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Brian
Posted on: September 25th, 2014, 21:45:41 Quote Report to Moderator
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Mine is close to being on the road, but still a long way from "finished" . I plan to get the last licensing done sometime in the next month or so.

I haven't ever seen one in the flesh, but I've seen pictures of two from various events. Probably not a lot here .
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Steve_Schmidt
Posted on: September 26th, 2014, 06:06:36 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Gippsland, Victoria, Australia
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G'day Jamie and welcome to this fabulous little forum that will I'm sure be an invaluable source of information and motivation for your build.
I've just completed a 20 month build on mm7056 so our cars are probably pretty similar. The subframe alignment issue shouldn't be of great concern, As was mentioned earlier, the rear subframe is offset slightly to the left (about 7mm on my car), but so long as the wheels are aligned to parallel string lines, the car will track straight and you won't notice any handling problems.



As well as the thread on this forum, my build was documented with monthly updates on the web page shown in my signature below.
Best of luck with your project and keep the pictures coming  

Steve (MM 7056) Downunder
http://www.mm7056.wordpress.com
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mike brown
Posted on: September 26th, 2014, 06:16:09 Quote Report to Moderator
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I have fitted a wheel spacer to one side to bring the wheels closer to true. I wouldn't fit much more than 10mm though and your likely to get through more wheel bearings on that side. As has been said it's almost impossible to get the subframes inline but as long as the wheels point in the correct direction relative to the centre line of the subframes and the subfames are parallel to each other then the handling will be fine.
Mike
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Jamie_Smith
Posted on: September 26th, 2014, 09:28:12 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Standon, Hertfordshire, UK.
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Thank you chaps. Its good to hear that the subframe alignment shouldn't be an issue, just one of the quirks of MM ownership I guess!

Steve - I must congratulate you on the standard of your rebuild - fabulous, I spent a most entertaining couple of hours looking at your website last night much to the wife's disgust....I also envy some of the lovely driving roads you have in Victoria having spent some time there 20 years ago (god that makes me feel old).

Love the colour scheme on your car, I'm thinking of a deep red / maroon triumph colour that I remember liking on a TR6 that was once in my Dads garage for repairs.  

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Neil KilBane
Posted on: September 26th, 2014, 10:32:04 Quote Report to Moderator
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just a little fine tuning left to do.


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Welcome to the Forum Jamie, the Club sells the Technical Manual for the Mini Marcos on a CD, lots of good info there. And it's only Two Quid !!!

 
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admin
Posted on: September 26th, 2014, 11:04:10 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hi Jamie, welcome to the club and the forum. I've put your photo on 7413's page but do feel free to send me a larger image by email if you wish. I've put a file size limit on the forum as we haven't got space for lots of high-res images.

The technical manual is in the members' area of the web site so you don't need to buy the CD. Email me for the login if you haven't got it.

Richard
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Brian
Posted on: September 26th, 2014, 20:44:45 Quote Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Jamie_Smith, posted September 25th, 2014, 21:15:48 at here

I think I'll check the alignment with the subframes still in place and I'm going with fully adjustable suspension so I'll hopefully be able to dial out any slight alignment irregularities.




Also, it probably goes without saying, but take tons of pictures of everything from multiple angles before and as you disassemble the car -- it will help greatly putting it together! For myself, I was building from scratch, and I haven't worked with other Minis before either, so I had several cases where it took a bit of puzzling before figuring out how things went together.

And the service manuals are frustrating in that regards -- most of them say how to disassemble something, then "reassemble in the reverse order" -- but they don't adjust things like "should the spacer be flipped this way or that" or whatnot.

With my other cars I've worked on, I try to drive it and work on it a bit before the total disassembly/rebuild, so that I can have a better feeling of how it's going back together. Just recently did this with a poorly done buick 215 (rover v conversion in the backseat of a '65 Corvair -- and we finally got it up and running 2 weeks ago after many months of troubling.

Last modified September 26th, 2014, 20:46:52 by Brian
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Jamie_Smith
Posted on: September 27th, 2014, 08:06:53 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Standon, Hertfordshire, UK.
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Quoted from Neil KilBane, posted September 26th, 2014, 10:32:04 at here
Welcome to the Forum Jamie, the Club sells the Technical Manual for the Mini Marcos on a CD, lots of good info there. And it's only Two Quid !!!



Thanks Neil,

I did get that CD from the club - most useful  
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Jamie_Smith
Posted on: September 27th, 2014, 08:10:28 Quote Report to Moderator
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Location: Standon, Hertfordshire, UK.
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Quoted from Brian, posted September 26th, 2014, 20:44:45 at here


Also, it probably goes without saying, but take tons of pictures of everything from multiple angles before and as you disassemble the car -- it will help greatly putting it together! For myself, I was building from scratch, and I haven't worked with other Minis before either, so I had several cases where it took a bit of puzzling before figuring out how things went together.

And the service manuals are frustrating in that regards -- most of them say how to disassemble something, then "reassemble in the reverse order" -- but they don't adjust things like "should the spacer be flipped this way or that" or whatnot.

With my other cars I've worked on, I try to drive it and work on it a bit before the total disassembly/rebuild, so that I can have a better feeling of how it's going back together. Just recently did this with a poorly done buick 215 (rover v conversion in the backseat of a '65 Corvair -- and we finally got it up and running 2 weeks ago after many months of troubling.



You're right Brian - aren't digital cameras a godsend for this, whoever invented them must be a car restorer!
Thats my job for today actually - wheel the car out of the garage for a thorough examination and I'll be taking loads of pictures. Then off to Mini Spares for some bits and bobs.
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