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  Author    Right - join Part A to Part B etc, etc, etc  (currently 42,347 views)
Graham Bichard
Posted on: September 17th, 2011, 20:46:12 Quote Report to Moderator
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Bottom of the fuel tank:

How about this for a solution to the fuel starvation, and somewhere to take the fuel take off from:

No - not an orange juice carton, but if the tank were modified to have such a low point added:

Don't know if it would clear the subframe though - anyone got any pictures?
And I got the labelling machine out and started trying to identify the loom conections:

Notice I cleaned up the bulkhead hole - still unsure if I'll use it, but if I don't it doesn't really matter what shape hole I would have to fill!
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Neil KilBane
Posted on: September 18th, 2011, 07:28:47 Quote Report to Moderator
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just a little fine tuning left to do.


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That' going to be way too low.

I'm not at home now to take a photo of my car, but to give you an idea, the flange of the fueltank is lower in the car than the top of the rear subframe, if that makes sence.

 

Last modified September 18th, 2011, 07:29:45 by Neil KilBane
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Gert-Jan Westerveld
Posted on: September 18th, 2011, 12:49:05 Quote Report to Moderator
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I hope it helps.

Rebuild engine  1312CC  .    
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Graham Bichard
Posted on: September 18th, 2011, 16:30:26 Quote Report to Moderator
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Ah, now I see!  With having the car on the floor I haven't had a change to offer the tank up - it's obvious that it's to low now I see the pictures (thanks Gert, and Neil).
So it looks like I'll be trying to perhaps use this for the return:

and have a take off put in at the bottom of a vertical surface.  I'll have to look to see if there's room for a swirl pot to counter surge.
And I'll still need to have a breather from the filler to the charcoal cannister.
But we're getting there (and thanks all for the info!)
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jimnaylor
Posted on: September 18th, 2011, 19:18:48 Quote Report to Moderator
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You shouldn't need a take off at the bottom. The one in the photo should lead to a flexible pipe inside the tank with a ball weight at the end. That is standard and came with my tank, but perhaps not with yours. The inside of the standard tank should be baffled. With that set up I've never suffered problems with fuel surge when rallying. The standard tank doesn't have a return and doesn't need one.
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Stuart
Posted on: September 18th, 2011, 19:43:14 Quote Report to Moderator
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Quoted from jimnaylor, posted September 18th, 2011, 19:18:48 at here
The standard tank doesn't have a return and doesn't need one.



It does if you're fitting an MPI engine though  

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Neil KilBane
Posted on: September 18th, 2011, 21:38:48 Quote Report to Moderator
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just a little fine tuning left to do.


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Here is a link to an excellent page on modifying an estate tank to use with an Mpi engine.

http://www.stallard-engineering.co.uk/stories/Minis/modifying_the_fuelling.htm

Should have all you need to know.

 
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Graham Bichard
Posted on: September 20th, 2011, 16:26:22 Quote Report to Moderator
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Yes Jim, injection is being fitted so I need a feed and a return plus the breather for the charcoal cannister.
Neil, I made contact some time ago with Ian Stellard - his conversion of the van tank on his clubman is very impressive and he tells me hes had 8 years of reliable running withit too.  I decided I wanted to investigate other methods though, such as using an in-line fuel pump (as opposed to in tank), and ideally incorporate a swirl pot type of system to prevent surge (Ian suffers starvation when fuel gets a little low, in left handers).  Interesting to hear you don't suffer this, Jim.
Wil Ker (sometimes of this parish!) came up with an idea - make the depth of the 'box' less, say 20mm and make the hole from the tank into the box 50mm.  This would allow a reserve of fuel in the 'box' but limit the amount of surge that could occur.  I could then have a take off on the front edge of this shallow box, and use the original supply as the return (as in the picture above and the same as Ian Stellard did).
I'll try and mock something up this weekend and see what you all think - I'm consious now of the need for ground clearance!

ETA One other thing which I wasn't too keen on, on Ian's car car the need to fit the breather on the top of the tank.  This would mean having a hole in the boot floor, which I would then need cover and seal to comply with IVA.  I'm planning on having some sort of take off on the filler pipe running down the pipe/around the tank to join up with the MPi pipe running to the cannister.

Last modified September 20th, 2011, 16:29:46 by Graham Bichard
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jimnaylor
Posted on: September 20th, 2011, 17:39:10 Quote Report to Moderator
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I've certainly run it tight a few times, running out of fuel about 200m beyond the stage finish and half a mile from service once. But having a carb it does have some reserve capacity, I might not notice the occasional leaning out of the mixture. Also I run a fiter king which is above the carb so there could be some more reserve there. If you are going for an in line pump then although not a high pressure pump, I do run an electric pump mounted in the spare wheel well which is about half way up the tank. It's a problem to prime if I've emptied the tank, but no problem otherwise.

Is it possible to run the returns back into the filler neck? it would seem easier than modifying the tank.
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Graham Bichard
Posted on: September 20th, 2011, 19:50:03 Quote Report to Moderator
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Quoted from jimnaylor, posted September 20th, 2011, 17:39:10 at here
I've certainly run it tight a few times, running out of fuel about 200m beyond the stage finish and half a mile from service once.


Jim - Colin Chapman would approve!

I hadn't thought of running the return back into the filler.  This might prove a little tight space wise, I need to have the 'breather' at a high point (but as mentioned don't want to use the top of the tank).

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Graham Bichard
Posted on: October 1st, 2011, 13:18:27 Quote Report to Moderator
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Okay so it's agreed the rad will be sloping.  

I was trying not to drill and bolt through the front panel but it looks like I'll have to - I'll try and incorporate the front panel bolts with number plate mounts.
There doesn't appear to be a direction of indicated on the rad, so space dictates the longer 'inlet' will go to the bottom (slightly more space):

But, those of you who have used the Cinq rad, there are four plastic bosses which look as if they receive screws/bolts to mount the rad.  Did you use these?  What thread (if any) is in them?  Or are they scarificial, to receive a self tapper?
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Craig Smith
Posted on: October 1st, 2011, 16:21:57 Quote Report to Moderator
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It uses 3 self tappers



The one arrowed is for a bleed hose so needs to be at the top if you used it or blanked off if you choose not to.

Last modified October 1st, 2011, 16:26:42 by Craig Smith
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admin
Posted on: October 1st, 2011, 18:33:35 Quote Report to Moderator
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I don't think my rad is actually bolted in - it just sits there. Anyway you could bond a fibreglass flange onto the inside of the number plate panel and secure the rad to that.

What about the electric fan? You'll need one if you get stuck in traffic. Is there a space for an otter switch? It looks as though there might be one on the right hand side near the top in your pics.
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jimnaylor
Posted on: October 1st, 2011, 18:35:40 Quote Report to Moderator
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There was a previos post on mounting the cinquecento radiator with quite a bit of info.

http://www.minimarcos.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?b=GB,m=1284065290
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Graham Bichard
Posted on: October 1st, 2011, 18:57:44 Quote Report to Moderator
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Thanks all - very useful!
I did think about bonding two wooden battens above/below the opening and screwing into that, but after looking at the MMOC Tech manual (and realising that I'll have to drill two holes for the number plate anyway) it seemed the neatest option to make brackets for the top/bottom if I could figure out a way of securing bracket to rad.
Jim, I had read that previous thread (I see I posted on it!) but must admit I'd forgotten about it  
Thanks for pointing out the bleed point Craig - I didn't there was a bleed incorporated into the rad.  Given that there is relatively little space in the I don't think I'll be using it though (because I'll have it mounted the other way up).
ETA Do any of you have a grill in front of the rad to protect the core?
Richard, I have a bi-directional fan.  That is, you can change the direction of the blades to suck/blow air over the core as required, so that'll sit engine side of the rad regardless of how I mount it.

Last modified October 1st, 2011, 19:02:01 by Graham Bichard
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